Feeler for Twin turbo kit based on ford turbos.

[PorscheHusky]

Wow, I forgot about this thread

The project has stalled as I'm low on funds but mainly because my health has taken a turn.

However I did find out numerous people tried this and about 500hp is the best these turbos will do on a 3.7 since the heads flow extremely well. So I have a set of 53mm mirror image turbos I'll be using. I'm also looking into having block supports made as well as forged pistons, beefed up rods and head/block high strength stud kits.

Block supports? Like a girdle?
And best wishes on a speedy recovery!

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[15ThreePoint7]

Block supports? Like a girdle?
And best wishes on a speedy recovery!

Not like a girdle. The cyclone comes from the factory with a girdle and 6 bolt mains. However it also comes with an "open deck" design where the cylinders walls have an open area completely around the cylinder walls and the block surface that is bolted to the heads. I'm looking into epoxy that "may" offer support but a pressed in billet Aluminum support will work without question.

Right now it is down to what I can afford to develop.

 

[15ThreePoint7]

I wonder if salvage yard ecotech V6 turbo would fit into the Mustang?

So what I have figured out is the 3.5 EB and the 3.7L Cyclone are pretty much the same engine, with some changes. The 3.5 had smaller bore, so different pistons and smaller bore block. Different cylinder heads with manifolds built into the cylinder heads. So theoretically (I don't have lot's of $$ to piss away on theories) the 3.5 EB heads should bolt onto 3.7L blocks. However this leaves us with the dilemma of cast 3.7 pistons being exposed to boost. We all know the rods are the same as 3.5 rods. Well if you didn't before you know now they are forged factory rods, same exact rods as the 3.5 EB. The crankshaft is also forged steel from FORD. Add this with 6 bolt mains and a factory girdle, it's a damn stout setup. Well except those cast pistons. However I am working on a solution.

In my research I've also found higher flow rates (bigger turbos) require larger cc heads valves and so on. This is why McLaren tuners revert to lower inertia wheels instead of just slapping on bigger turbos. The 3.5 EB engine is tunable to over 580hp with software and fuel. Add in lower inertia 5yrbos with tuning and you are knocking on 800.

One of the biggest differences is the water pump and front timing cover changes from FWD to RWD configuration. The blocks are the same. The FWD uses an inferior internal timing chain driven water pump design. The rwd uses an idler in it's place. From what I have heard from 1 big hp guy is the idler is an issue. I Hope to address this issue as well.

I have found a supplier of beefier forged steel rods and forged pistons that could come in under 1400 for the set, with pins, bolts and bearings. Still working on it but need to come up with the $ for the Initial run.

That being said my HOPE is to develope a set of rods/ Pistons, pins, bearings, rings, cylinder supports and MLS Gaskets as a kit that will enable the Cyclone to live at 1000 to 1100hp without worry.

The nissan GTR is a V6. It actually has the same bore, and the same piston diameter of 95.5mm and is routinely brought over 1000hp. The Cyclone is an extremely well Engineered base design that with minimal effort can make 1000 to 1500hp. I am really hoping my time researching this turns cyclones into the unsung hero and starts destroying big cube competitors.

 

[15ThreePoint7]

 

[15ThreePoint7]

That is my research 3.7, it shows the "open deck" design. Some Honda builders have used epoxy to build up the strength of their blocks. I'm trying to research high aluminum epoxy buy data is limited. So I'm hoping to come up with the best solution. Either epoxy or a billet insert.

 

[PorscheHusky]

Not like a girdle. The cyclone comes from the factory with a girdle and 6 bolt mains. However it also comes with an "open deck" design where the cylinders walls have an open area completely around the cylinder walls and the block surface that is bolted to the heads. I'm looking into epoxy that "may" offer support but a pressed in billet Aluminum support will work without question.

Right now it is down to what I can afford to develop.

Sounds like you're chasing a closed deck design which is ideal for high boost and heat applications can can be brutally expensive. That's kinda why I was beginning to lean 3.5 swap because that engine was made from the ground up to be boosted. A lot can also argue that since the 3.7 came after with a lot of shared parts, it can as well.

However, when looking at the price of things, a (seemingly) turnkey 3.5 from the likes of eBay seem to be avg of 4-6k range where 3.7s can be had for right at 1k and under, with a few 2ks being on the high side.
With that in mind, doing all the necessary mods to get the 3.7 boost ready and reliable is going to net me nearly the price of an average 3.5 from the wreckers. Not to mention the labour cost(s) from the machinist that might be required when feeling with cracking a sealed engine open.

I am curious what your kit will have to offer but I do have concern about what the final price will be in the grand ending.


Side note. A lot of the V8 'tards on Facebook have this higher than thou mentality (some jest while others make you wonder if they legitimately have seething disgust knowing these cars have/had smaller engine options than 8cyl) so they bash with 'just get a GT', 'lol, spends 10k+ in mods to beat a GT' etc. when my inspiration comes from Ford's GT. I understand that beast is about half the weight of our cargo ships but 600hp+ and nearly 600tq from a factory V6 that's only 3.5lt is bonkers! I know they did it for racing reasons but still, it's bloody impressive.
I'll get off my soapbox now lol

 

[15ThreePoint7]

I'm definitely not going for a new block. This is an example of a block insert, there is a company that makes them for the 3.7 but they charge something like 1800 for the set. I'm hoping to get some made by a local machine shop, or alternatively I am looking into a different method made popular by the Honda guys running over 550hp in their i4s with massive boost, they use aluminum epoxy, sounds nuts but if may work.

 

[15ThreePoint7]

I'm with you on the V8 guys and a lot of the V6 guys as well. I have been building turbo cars and custom motorcycles from before a lot of these geniuses were born. If I can get the rods and pistons ordered along with the stud kits and if epoxy supports will work I should be able to offer a kit for about 1800 to 2k to make the block capable of 1000hp. It may take even more, if everything falls into place for me (not very often that happens lol) I would not mind testing it to see.

 

[PorscheHusky]

I'm definitely not going for a new block. This is an example of a block insert, there is a company that makes them for the 3.7 but they charge something like 1800 for the set. I'm hoping to get some made by a local machine shop, or alternatively I am looking into a different method made popular by the Honda guys running over 550hp in their i4s with massive boost, they use aluminum epoxy, sounds nuts but if may work.

Blimey! As shiney as those things are, I wouldn't want to install them for the risk of tarnishing them LOL I swear I'm not a kleptomaniac! Haha

But yeah, the inserts should sort that up pretty good. I was starting to think sleeves with built in fillers would be the only way, like the Volvo guys do with the 2.5 T5 engines. But that requires total removal of the cylinders then drop in the 'sleeves' then deck it and voilà, closed deck AND stronger cylinders.
That generally costs them 800ish (pre Covid price on IPD) + whatever the machinist charges depending on his/her mood lol

 

[PorscheHusky]

I'm with you on the V8 guys and a lot of the V6 guys as well. I have been building turbo cars and custom motorcycles from before a lot of these geniuses were born. If I can get the rods and pistons ordered along with the stud kits and if epoxy supports will work I should be able to offer a kit for about 1800 to 2k to make the block capable of 1000hp. It may take even more, if everything falls into place for me (not very often that happens lol) I would not mind testing it to see.

With that in mind, that seems like a damn fair price especially if the engine has potential to be an all-motor build with these upgrades.
Makes me wonder if mid 300s or even touching 400 is possible N/A with your proposed kit coupled with Auto Mafia's short ram plenum, a rewerked valvetrain assy. and lighter flywheel (though too lite and the damn thing will become unruly in stop-n-go traffic... Learned that the hard way with my 964 that I put a 12lb flywheel on... Big brain moment lol)

 

[15ThreePoint7]

I'm honestly not sure what can be done N/A as I'm doing everything with F.I. in mind. Even unshrouding the valves a bit in the spare engine, which as you know will lower compression.

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