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Coyote 2121

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Looks like ice are gonna be around a while longer.......

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WItoTX

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Hate to tell you, but EVs are coming whether you like it or not. It has nothing to do with what hte market wants. Cali has banned ICE starting 2035 for new cars. Several places in the EU have done the same.

California, specifically CARB, has been given defacto authority to dictate emissions. If CARB has gone that way, the rest of the US will follow. And with the EU on the same path, large markets will adjust.

Sorry, but EVs are going to be the future unless some MASSIVE regulatory change happens, and production moves to China/India/etc...you get the idea.

Just to be clear. I dispise EVs. But what the market wants is not what the rules will allow. And the market will blink, just like it did in the late 70s.
 

Pistol_91

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Hate to tell you, but EVs are coming whether you like it or not. It has nothing to do with what hte market wants. Cali has banned ICE starting 2035 for new cars. Several places in the EU have done the same.

California, specifically CARB, has been given defacto authority to dictate emissions. If CARB has gone that way, the rest of the US will follow. And with the EU on the same path, large markets will adjust.

Sorry, but EVs are going to be the future unless some MASSIVE regulatory change happens, and production moves to China/India/etc...you get the idea.

Just to be clear. I dispise EVs. But what the market wants is not what the rules will allow. And the market will blink, just like it did in the late 70s.
California is a shit hole
 

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luca1290

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Hate to tell you, but EVs are coming whether you like it or not. It has nothing to do with what hte market wants. Cali has banned ICE starting 2035 for new cars. Several places in the EU have done the same.

California, specifically CARB, has been given defacto authority to dictate emissions. If CARB has gone that way, the rest of the US will follow. And with the EU on the same path, large markets will adjust.

Sorry, but EVs are going to be the future unless some MASSIVE regulatory change happens, and production moves to China/India/etc...you get the idea.

Just to be clear. I dispise EVs. But what the market wants is not what the rules will allow. And the market will blink, just like it did in the late 70s.
Do you think that because something is set in law then it's going to happen?

I'll translate it for you: it's not because you wish something that it's going to happen.
 

DougS550

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Do you think that because something is set in law then it's going to happen?

I'll translate it for you: it's not because you wish something that it's going to happen.
It's a Pipe Dream, which is just about to collide with Reality. None of us will live to see the day, when ICE vehicles are gone. It's just not going to happen.
 

Vicr

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Strictly talking about recharging stations and the massive infrastructure to support millions of EV vehicles we are already at least a decade behind where we should be. To start with we need to mine more aluminum and copper for the cables and distribution systems. We need more petroleum for the manufacturing of the insulation of wire and cables, we need to mine more iron ore for the steel production to build the transmission wire towers and we need to have the trained work force to build these infrastructures. So we start building the infrastructures for the charging stations now where is the electricity going to come from? I don't want to get into politics but the present administration is killing the exact industries needed to build and support the infrastructure for EV charging stations. Just my point of view after a 38 year career in electrical construction and design.
 
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Pistol_91

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Strictly talking about recharging stations and the massive infrastructure to support millions of EV vehicles we are already at least a decade behind where we should be. To start with we need to mine more copper for the cables and distribution systems. We need more petroleum for the manufacturing of the insulation of wire and cables, we need to mine more iron ore for the steel production to build the transmission wire towers and we need to have the trained work force to build these infrastructures. So we start building the infrastructures for the charging stations now where is the electricity going to come from? I don't want to get into politics but the present administration is killing the exact industries needed to build and support the infrastructure for EV charging stations. Just my point of view after a 38 year career in electrical construction and design.
You're definitely a little "aged" when it comes to infrastructure. The power grid isn't using copper wires anymore. Neither are they using steel structures for transmission. They're being replacing with concrete poles. Almost all the wire is aluminum except for the old stuff still out there at the feeder level. You're correct though on where will it come from and them killing the only chance they have to produce enough megawatts to support EV charging. Nuclear. They won't build it though even though it's more green and more efficient than the coal burning plants that produce half of the megawatts a nuclear plant can produce. So with that, they will need more coal burning plants to keep up. With that said it makes no sense the big push on EVs. It's fucking stupid.
 

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WItoTX

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Do you think that because something is set in law then it's going to happen?

I'll translate it for you: it's not because you wish something that it's going to happen.
Yes. If it is a regulation, it will happen. Ready or not. See 1974-1987 Mustang. That ugly, underpowered bastard of a car was the product of regulations. Along with the Charger, the death of the Roadrunner, and countless other cars in that era.

And we know what happens when car companies don't follow the rules (See VW - Unrelated, the engineer that came up with that system is a genius, and he deserves an award.).

If we bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening, then I guess yes, it isn't happening. But it is happening. Unless, as I said earlier, regulations are changed, and CARB decides it doesn't want to force its heavy hand of compliance.
 

Cobra Jet

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Strictly talking about recharging stations and the massive infrastructure to support millions of EV vehicles we are already at least a decade behind where we should be. To start with we need to mine more copper for the cables and distribution systems. We need more petroleum for the manufacturing of the insulation of wire and cables, we need to mine more iron ore for the steel production to build the transmission wire towers and we need to have the trained work force to build these infrastructures. So we start building the infrastructures for the charging stations now where is the electricity going to come from? I don't want to get into politics but the present administration is killing the exact industries needed to build and support the infrastructure for EV charging stations. Just my point of view after a 38 year career in electrical construction and design.
this isn't directed towards you - your post makes good points but the "greenies" don't see past the blabber of "EV is good, it's all good for the world"...

And what and who is going to do all that mining - EV diggers, plows, dumps, trains, and bucket shovelers - while they run out of EV juice mid dig or transport?? Yea right. That will never happen, so you're going to have ICE doing all of the heavy mining/moving of materials, no question about it.

Need more petro to manufacturer harness casing etc for all the miles and miles of wiring? Sure, no problem... but WAIT - petro isn't green either, nor is the process of manufacturing it. More petro for more harnesses = more spewt pollution into the atmosphere. Yes, I said "spewt", sure I know it's not a word but who's cares, it is one now and maybe will get cited into the Oxford Dictionary.

Where is the electricity going to come from for the up and coming future charge stations? Well, it's freaking magic - it just comes out of the air "*poof*, now you're charged up... At least that is how the greenies see it. Fact of the matter is, greenies aren't all that smart. They're the type that often overlook the fine print. They also don't understand the concept of electricity at all. These same people don't care that all these EV's will be sitting in dumps as the planet melts down. As long as their EV magically charges with absolutely no impact to the environment - they're saving the planet ya'll.... Not.

You tell me who's going to buy any used EV where the original battery is at least 30-50% depleted OR maybe has charging issues and to repair out of warranty is an easy $8k-$10K out of pocket expense? Dealers will give shit for EV trade ins and they aren't going to absorb the cost to replace EV battery packs in the floor pan like it's a $1k set of tires or a $200 F/R set of brake pads to resell the car to make a profit...

Everyone smoking the EV stogie - wait until that whole mindless decision and ridiculous ideology comes crashing back to earth. Mining precious metals and needed materials for EV production won't last forever - and if it can't be sourced from an Allied Country or Partner, you bet your ass there will be wars to get that material from Bad Actors or Countries.

The EV path is nonsense and on a way to further destroying the planet faster than the last 100+ years to ICE. It is not and won't be greener than ICE by any length of the imagination.

Everyone has blinders on - no one can see the big picture and it will be too late when everyone goes "oh, that was a bad idea..."
 

Ole Texan

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The electrics are coming, in the life time of >55 year olds. Nuclear is returning sooner than latter (as soon as big oil procures the infrastructure and regulatory requirements).
A one year pause in some EV budgeting will have little impact if any on long term EV production. The big three will likely push mid-level mass market EVs and abandon ridiculous over the top units. Think Hummer EVs etc.
 

K4fxd

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The big three will likely push mid-level mass market EVs and abandon ridiculous over the top units. Think Hummer EVs etc.
At some point reality will hit the political types and these mandates will be pushed back and or repealed all together. EV's will be around as some will want them. The majority will want straight ICE or hybrids.

The amount of power needed to run fast chargers in the numbers required for 100% BEV is staggering. Hell even at 30% saturation level is not doable in this country.
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