ESS Centrifugal Mustang Superchargers

[PayForYourGas]

Similar doesnt mean crap if the efficiency doesnt match.

which would you pilck if one spits put 200 degree IATs at the same psi for example.

Thats the difference here. Which ones cooler?

Need compressor maps for each. I dont give a crap what the cfm is.

Yeah that's just not going to happen with a intercooled centrifugal design.

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[NotagainV2]

You realize A2W has been done before and its been done with centri blower and hellion turbo kits.......

Bilut hey carry on WTF do I know.........

 

[PayForYourGas]

You realize A2W has been done before and its been done with centri blower and hellion turbo kits.......

Bilut hey carry on WTF do I know.........

No I'm saying a 60 degree variance between nearly identical intercooled centrifugal blowers is not going to happen.

 

[kenand1988]

I would agree with the statement of more than 8 psi. My guess is 11 psi.

Are you thinking its more than 8 just based off the power? I think we need more people to get this kit, dyno and post their specs (which I will gladly do once I get my hands on it). They said their inventory is fine but they actually lack the manpower to piece all the kits together since they're dealing with more demand than usual in the Euro market, good problems right?

Someone mentioned above the standard pulley for the vortech is a 4.75 which is 120mm. The 6psi pulley ESS sells is 125mm. The ess kit is a shared drive and so are the stage 1 kits from vortech and procharger i believe so the underdrive pulley would all be the same the only difference would be the actual headunits. The gen 2 from carmaspeed made around 570 whp on the 6psi pulley on 91. The user with the gen 3 made 680 on the 8psi pulley on 93 with a BAP (not sure that matters maybe someone can clue in on that). The biggest differences would be the tune and the higher compression of the gen 3. My question is wheres this idea about it really being 11 psi come from? Because thats what similar kits can put out? If thats the case I really am interested for the raw numbers because I'm not sure why ESS would be selling pulleys that are WAY under rated. 3 psi is a very big difference on pump gas.

 

[PayForYourGas]

Are you thinking its more than 8 just based off the power? I think we need more people to get this kit, dyno and post their specs (which I will gladly do once I get my hands on it). They said their inventory is fine but they actually lack the manpower to piece all the kits together since they're dealing with more demand than usual in the Euro market, good problems right?

Someone mentioned above the standard pulley for the vortech is a 4.75 which is 120mm. The 6psi pulley ESS sells is 125mm. The ess kit is a shared drive and so are the stage 1 kits from vortech and procharger i believe so the underdrive pulley would all be the same the only difference would be the actual headunits. The gen 2 from carmaspeed made around 570 whp on the 6psi pulley on 91. The user with the gen 3 made 680 on the 8psi pulley on 93 with a BAP (not sure that matters maybe someone can clue in on that). The biggest differences would be the tune and the higher compression of the gen 3. My question is wheres this idea about it really being 11 psi come from? Because thats what similar kits can put out? If thats the case I really am interested for the raw numbers because I'm not sure why ESS would be selling pulleys that are WAY under rated. 3 psi is a very big difference on pump gas.

The standard pulley with the Vortech is 3.6” on a shared drive (10-11 PSI on an aftermarket tune). Procharger generally sends a 4.75 (8.5 psi) with their Stage 2 P1X kits unless you specify otherwise, which is a dedicated drive with a larger crank pulley. The step up ratios between the blowers is also a little different, so the Prochargers can run a very slightly larger blower pulley at the same boost. We really don’t know what the step up of the ESS blower is.

That blower is definitely pushing more than 8psi to make those power levels. Those are very close to Vortech/Paxton numbers, which is also a larger blower (1450 CFM). For another reference, stock Procharger P1X kits are usually right under 600 WHP with the stock pulley and custom tuning.

 

[DougS550]

Has Anyone one from the US posted actual Graphs with HP-TQ. I wonder how well it builds TQ compared to PC, VT ETC.

 

[kevinvan6000]

Has Anyone one from the US posted actual Graphs with HP-TQ. I wonder how well it builds TQ compared to PC, VT ETC.

I posted my graph a couple of posts back - it should do the trick. I'm pretty sure our numbers are comparable to US numbers...its not like we run our cars off fermented maple syrup. Our pump fuel has 10% ethanol in it for the most part, which I think is pretty common now in a lot of places in the US. That might be the only difference.

 

[Torinate]

A few things here. The Esso / Mobil 93 octane is ethanol free but the PetroCan 94 is 10% ethanol. There’s really no difference between the US and Canada as far dyno numbers. Fuel is pretty consistent as well. That’s a non-starter.

Is Arun’s dyno a little happy? Maybe. Not likely though. It’s certainly not crazy and he has no dog in the fight here. The air when the dyno was taken was great! Cool and dense. I live 10 miles from where the shop is. Not sure what the density was exactly though. Maybe it’s on the dyno sheet?

Pulley size between all of the centris is irrelevant as each has different internal step up ratios. You can’t compare a 3.6 vortech with a 4.75 Procharger vs a 120mm ESS. Do we know what the step up ratio is with this blower?

As far as heat generated, there could be a substantial difference between them. If the Procharger for instance is making an easy 10 psi without breaking a sweat or wringing it’s neck then the heat produced is less. Conversely, spinning one of the smaller vortechs to the moon - well beyond its capabilities and outside its efficiency zone may superheat the charge air and reduce power and promote detonation. With the limited information we have with this new blower, we don’t know what end of the spectrum it lies. However, with the dimensions of the impeller and inducer it stands to reason that it’s working in the correct efficiency zone and the outlet temps are just fine. Maps would show us the truth. What does ESS rate as max impeller speed for this blower?

The 11 psi figure comes from everyone’s previous experiences. Typically 8 psi is not getting near the 684 wheel Kevin made. That number is typically around 11 psi with a blower as long as IATs are in check.

What are the turbo cars making at 11 psi or 8 psi on pump gas? And they have much less pumping losses. I think once the boost gauge is hooked up the true boost number will be known. However, we also know that the actual boost psi is an arbitrary number. More efficient / higher Exhaust flow typically lowers the actual boost gauge number but adds to the HP number. I cannot remember what exhaust Kevin has but that may make a difference to the actual boost psi as well.

Regardless, these are great numbers any way you look at it. Is this an auto or stick car?

 

[DougS550]

Hi. Great Numbers. Can you post a pic of the Dyno Graph showing the Torque and RPM. I am curious how the P1X matches the HP and TQ throughout the RPM power Band. That way we can compare apples to apples. And your saying this kit comes with everything? I would want the G3 if it can work with Pump 93 and Boostane? And you IAT are at an acceptable level when making back to power runs on the street, running hard. Thank you for your help
This price seems more reasonable compared to other Centrifugal SC. To me, the others are about 30% Over priced.

 

[Torinate]

Just looked back a few pages. Long tubes and GT350 IM so keep that in mind for comparisons sake.

 

[DougS550]

Just looked back a few pages. Long tubes and GT350 IM so keep that in mind for comparisons sake.

I will. I will look into the G3 10 rib set up to run either with 93 and Boostane or E85. I live in Indianapolis Indiana so I have top tuners to work with. Plus Been speed And Hell Horse are close. The savings alone will pay for the other upgrades. The only thing you have to be aware of are the competitors who monitor this site and also promote only their products. I wanted someone close to me so I could possibly drive to them and take a close look at their ESS kit. Thank you for your help

 

[Veteran]

Are you thinking its more than 8 just based off the power? I think we need more people to get this kit, dyno and post their specs (which I will gladly do once I get my hands on it). They said their inventory is fine but they actually lack the manpower to piece all the kits together since they're dealing with more demand than usual in the Euro market, good problems right?

Someone mentioned above the standard pulley for the vortech is a 4.75 which is 120mm. The 6psi pulley ESS sells is 125mm. The ess kit is a shared drive and so are the stage 1 kits from vortech and procharger i believe so the underdrive pulley would all be the same the only difference would be the actual headunits. The gen 2 from carmaspeed made around 570 whp on the 6psi pulley on 91. The user with the gen 3 made 680 on the 8psi pulley on 93 with a BAP (not sure that matters maybe someone can clue in on that). The biggest differences would be the tune and the higher compression of the gen 3. My question is wheres this idea about it really being 11 psi come from? Because thats what similar kits can put out? If thats the case I really am interested for the raw numbers because I'm not sure why ESS would be selling pulleys that are WAY under rated. 3 psi is a very big difference on pump gas.

No expert here , but read a lot of tech info. It seems centri will add approx 6% power per psi.
so if std whp is 420, each psi will yield a extra 25.2 whp.
Car made approx 680whp, so that’s a increase of 260hp.
That gives just over 10psi to achieve.
But like many have said, temps etc all affect the outcomes.

 

[kenand1988]

Just a heads up you can add the ecoboost boost guage to a GT mine is 2020. This works I believe on any year. You'll need an elm adapter mine was 20 bucks on Amazon and the forscan software and 2 month trial license is free. Do a search on this forum for as build data and then follow the link to the confirmed mods spreadsheet which will show you what to change to get your desired result.

 

[PayForYourGas]

Pulley size between all of the centris is irrelevant as each has different internal step up ratios. You can’t compare a 3.6 vortech with a 4.75 Procharger vs a 120mm ESS. Do we know what the step up ratio is with this blower?

The sizes were just stated as a point of reference as to what comes with the base kits @ what PSI. Obviously Procharger uses a different step up AND a larger crank pulley (Stage 2).

 

[eLeSthree]

What’s up C? I just joined the forum because i see the ESS kits are starting to catch on. Let me start by saying that I am a car enthusiast, a horsepower junkie, and a speed freak. Im not a GM/Dodge/Ford nutswinger. Im actually thinking of switching platforms at the moment.

i drive the camaro he was talking about thats been helping ESS test their clockwise version of their proprietary, made in house, head units. Dont confuse the G series blowers with the Vortech head units you can also buy in an ESS tuning kit. The Gs are made by ESS. They will stand behind their head units. Ive been beating the shit out of them for two years. I consistently spin mine to around 66000rpm impeller speed. The vette dude spun to 73000 occassionaly.

My camaro started life with their Vortech V3Si head unit, cam and exhaust. Made 660whp on 93 and 10psi. Then i moved up to the G3X on a big pulley (different sizing than mustangs) and made 800 on ethanol. Thats when i ran SolarFlare. Then turned it up to 913whp on the stock LS3 motor with a cam. The car now has a Dart 427 with FED heads and an ESS G4-95mm head unit. It easily made 1030whp and 935ftlbs on 20psi. We stopped here for traction reasons, but at the track im sure i could add a degree of timing and a smaller pulley and make 1100. ESS is working on a G4-100mm clockwise (or counter, i forget. Opposite of corvette), for me to test. Im sure we can hit 1200 on my setup, as it has already made 1300+In the corvette application.

I dont personally know how the belt routing is designed for the mustangs, but the camaro design is 10 rib and has Superb belt wrap. Belt slip is a non issue.

Fyi, i absolutely love the newer mustangs and have a ton of respect for solarflare. His car has come along way from when we met up. Hes a great competitor and now has a badass mustang running low 9s with a ton of kills under his belt. Good luck on getting into the 8s this year With the new trans brake. I am extremely envious of your automatic.

If anyone wants to see the runs just go to youtube.
Like I said these are very old runs, but i think the cars are very evenly matched, given that i have a manual. Not sure why he said the performance of ESS is lacking. Looks like its keeping up with him....

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