End of production of Shelby GT350/R after 2020. Will resale price climb?

[stanglife]

Interesting... I haven’t seen any complaints regarding the new knuckles and steering of the 2020 R. What’s the complaints?

As the prior owner of the 64th routine production GEN 1 350R (GR064) and now the owner of HEP R 178, I can honestly tell you that the cars are totally different in driving character.

GR064 was more raucous and less refined... HEPR 178 has better road manners and comfort, while being able to handle just as good, if not better than GR064.

The revisions to the rack and the knuckles, along with some minor suspension changes, have tuned the R into more of a “directed input” with better feedback, IMHO. The seats are similar in the HEP R to the GEN 1 R, which I thankfully appreciate much more. The added GEN 2 engine features just sealed the deal for me.

So, if I had to pick between my GEN 1 and my GEN 2, I’d pick the GEN 2 night and day above the GEN 1.

IIRC, @stanglife had a GEN 1 R, and is looking at, or has gotten, a GEN 2 R... his feedback would help here as well.

I will come back and comment after I get a chance to drive the 2020 spiritedly. So far, just too busy. Initially, less or almost zero tranlining. It reminded me how noisy the cup2 tires are though..had forgotten about that. ;)

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[RPDBlueMoon]

I will come back and comment after I get a chance to drive the 2020 spiritedly. So far, just too busy. Initially, less or almost zero tranlining. It reminded me how noisy the cup2 tires are though..had forgotten about that. ;)

Its interesting that I've see people saying that maybe its because Im not used to these types of cars but I have the GT350 and this thing tramlines, I can only imagine how it must feel with the GT350 R. The roads here aren't the best here so that could be why, on fresh pavement it feels fine.

 

[DrumReaper]

Its interesting that I've see people saying that maybe its because Im not used to these types of cars but I have the GT350 and this thing tramlines, I can only imagine how it must feel with the GT350 R. The roads here aren't the best here so that could be why, on fresh pavement it feels fine.

The regular 350 doesn’t have the revised knuckle the R does so yeah, you’re gonna get more tramlining than the R.

 

[16Kobra]

I will come back and comment after I get a chance to drive the 2020 spiritedly. So far, just too busy. Initially, less or almost zero tranlining. It reminded me how noisy the cup2 tires are though..had forgotten about that. ;)

I am thinking after the Daytona event of putting the street alignment on my R so its more "road friendly"

 

[rmk350]

Congrats Hope you enjoy it.

I just relocated to Panama City, hope to cross paths with you in the future.

My 19 R is still in the Orlando area as I could not move it up here yet, but I have my 2007 GT500 to cruise.

Sounds good man!

 

[DrumReaper]

I am thinking after the Daytona event of putting the street alignment on my R so its more "road friendly"

Question... are you gonna keep the CF wheels on or invest in another set?

 

[Tomster]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. Someone recently asked me to go over values of Rs in their collection. This is what I have to say. To summarize. I don't think values are going up anytime soon. It will take time. You should be buying the car to drive and enjoy. These cars are not investments.

Message follows:

In my honest opinion, I believe those cars are worth more if you sold them private party. I have to throw the caveat in that you are dealing with a dealer and you would have to reference trade in values. I made my deal to trade in my '17 triple yellow R (in excellent condition with 4700 miles) for $62K. They wanted to give me $60K, but I politely told them that the car has over $5K in Xpel. They bumped it up to $62K. That was not an accurate price for comparison. That price was pre-covid and before the GT500 craze set in. Since then, my dealership pulled a fast one and somehow lost my deal jacket and any record of my deal was erased from the computer. My point is, the cars are not worth as much as they were. Again, I blame the covid crisis and I also blame the "next and best" effect from Ford. My car's realistic trade in value was probably in the high 50's. They did eventually sell the car and I believe they got $65K for it. So they didn't loose their ass, but they didn't make what they are used to making. I feel your dealer is offering you a fair price, but you can do better. He hopes to make a bunch of money off the purchase of your cars.

I've been watching eBay. List prices are not sale prices. I don't see a lot of GT350Rs moving with a lot of demand. On the other hand, the GT500s are, but the ADMs have come down a bit. One case in point, Chief Charlie's car, a 2016 R model with 500 miles, Perfect condition, full warranty until 2024, with lots of extras is for sale. He reached out to me to try to set a price. In reference to selling it to a family friend, I thought $60K would be a great deal for them. The car is still on eBay at $59,995. If I wanted an R model, his or a car like yours would be the ones I would buy. The problem is that everyone is doing the same thing right now. Demand is low, supply is high, and prices are down.

Now, you are asking me to look into the crystal ball and tell you what the market will bring..... All I can do is tell you how I feel about the cars and why I'm not selling the two I have left. I enjoy these cars. Despite what that self entitled pack of hyenas say over in the HEP thread, I am a third pedal guy. I enjoy the experience. I let one of the Rs go because I do not have any more room and I wanted to be part of the GT500 CFTP experience. It was a goal I set for myself and I bought that yellow R with the knowledge that was the best way to protect my money for the longest time until the 500 was released. That plan payed dividends. Now here I am looking at my other 2 Rs knowing they are not worth as much as they were. Does that bother me? No. Here is why..... I don't ever plan to sell those cars. They will not be worth a ton of money in my lifetime. They will be to my nieces and nephews...... maybe. This whole electric car thing is something that can definitely upset the apple cart for future buyers and collectors. It could hurt or it could help. I will say this with certainty; the GT350 and especially the R will go down in history as one of the most special mustangs ever produced. That in itself should tell you something. When the market turns and brings values back in the upward direction is subject to too many variables to calculate. To bring any kind of serious money, you are probably looking at 30 to 40 years.

One thing that will temporarily hold down values is the fact that as technology increases and things they learned from all these various cars are incorporated into new models, vehicle performance will meet or exceed what the GT350R is capable of in a much more common and less expensive vehicle. So, what does this mean? I believe that values will continue to decrease until the car becomes a collector. IMHO, the car is too new for any serious collector to buy one of these hoping for a return in the near future. The early models of the GT350 were good investments. My first GT350 was traded in for what I paid for it. The tax offset was a bonus, and that certainly covered the very small ADM I paid on the triple yellow R. Values seemed to be based on dealer ADMs. You couldn't buy the car new for MSRP through '17 and the used values reflected that. '18 and beyond saw a relaxation of the ADMs right up to where we are today. It is common to see MSRP deals for R models, unless you are talking about that HEP publicity stunt, but that is just another way to produce something that has the illusion of rarity.

Bottom line, the GT350 run has come to an end. Values will sink a bit more and then start to stabilize. As time goes on, the values will go up. What this means to you is that if you need the money, I think the dealer offer is low (because you are not realizing a tax offset that would equate to about another $4K off the purchase price of a new car). However it is a fair offer. If you watch Pawn Stars, you probably know what I'm talking about. They would be buying your cars at a good price for them and you would be able to walk out with $123K in your pocket. You could get more if you sold private party; maybe in the 65-67K range, but it won't sell quick. What you have are two perfect examples that have almost no miles on them. You are outside of that dreaded '17 model year that carries the stigma of oil consumption and engine replacements. What hurts you is you don't have an extended warranty. You may want to hold that in your hip pocket and be ready to offer a long term 36K warranty as a negotiating point. They run a little over $1K.

I know that is a lot, but it comes down to what your goal is with these cars. Are you trying to make money as a collector? Or are you looking to have in your garage one of the best all around mustangs in your garage?

 

[dom418]

Interesting... I haven’t seen any complaints regarding the new knuckles and steering of the 2020 R. What’s the complaints?

As the prior owner of the 64th routine production GEN 1 350R (GR064) and now the owner of HEP R 178, I can honestly tell you that the cars are totally different in driving character.

GR064 was more raucous and less refined... HEPR 178 has better road manners and comfort, while being able to handle just as good, if not better than GR064.

The revisions to the rack and the knuckles, along with some minor suspension changes, have tuned the R into more of a “directed input” with better feedback, IMHO. The seats are similar in the HEP R to the GEN 1 R, which I thankfully appreciate much more. The added GEN 2 engine features just sealed the deal for me.

So, if I had to pick between my GEN 1 and my GEN 2, I’d pick the GEN 2 night and day above the GEN 1.

IIRC, @stanglife had a GEN 1 R, and is looking at, or has gotten, a GEN 2 R... his feedback would help here as well.

more numb is what I have heard in the steering feel with the new setup. As you said it is more refined, which may equate to less driver feed back

 

[DrumReaper]

more numb is what I have heard in the steering feel with the new setup. As you said it is more refined, which may equate to less driver feed back

That’s interesting... I guess increased tramlining is considered feedback?

Yeah... I’ve driven both, for a fair amount of miles and the new knuckle is hands down improved.

But.... if the 2020 R has numb steering then I guess the 500 does as well.

 

[Tomster]

No, I find the CFTP wanders a bit, just like the old Rs used to. I guess a GT500 knuckle hand me down gives a numb R steering.

I found the old R knuckle on track was just fine. I guess they had to make it more street friendly for the cars and coffee folks.

 

[DrumReaper]

I’m sure a sticky 305-315 front tire will wander to some extent on its on right, but the differences between the first-gen knuckle and the second-gen with respect to feedback and handling is very noticeably different, and improved.

I remember trying to find an adequate setting on the steering for road manners with the first-gen and nothing worked to dial in the feedback as I’d like. I find better feedback in all three settings now.

When I tracked a track-prepped R with the first-gen knuckle I thought the feedback was good but any change in character of the track and you knew it immediately. The second-gen knuckle provides good feedback without all the searching the pavement like a bloodhound.

 

[wingnutt]

Its interesting that I've see people saying that maybe its because Im not used to these types of cars but I have the GT350 and this thing tramlines, I can only imagine how it must feel with the GT350 R. The roads here aren't the best here so that could be why, on fresh pavement it feels fine.

if you wanna find out, lemme know...I am also in Cali, and run up and down the I-5 in my 350R almost weekly

I was also in the 101st...326th Engineers from 92-97

 

[Tomster]

I found tramlining to only be a factor on roads with ruts and imperfections in the asphalt (aka, street driving). On a prepped and maintained track, there was no tramlining at all.

So since the R is a track focused 350, I dont see what the comparison is all about. You buy an R for a track focused 350 and a non R for all the goodies without the extra expense.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[DrumReaper]

I found tramlining to only be a factor on roads with ruts and imperfections in the asphalt (aka, street driving). On a prepped and maintained track, there was no tramlining at all.

So since the R is a track focused 350, I dont see what the comparison is all about. You buy an R for a track focused 350 and a non R for all the goodies without the extra expense.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Well, you came and chimed in and wanted to provide your input even though you don’t have a 2020R.... so, it’s a nobrainer to me as to why you’re debating this without firsthand awareness.

Your knowledge of the CFTP has been noted...

 

[Tomster]

Well, you came and chimed in and wanted to provide your input even though you don’t have a 2020R.... so, it’s a nobrainer to me as to why you’re debating this without firsthand awareness.

Your knowledge of the CFTP has been noted...

I remember when you got your '16 R on the coat tails of another member here. You sold it and went away for a long time. It was nice. Somehow owning one R for a short time and then buying another (which you have had for a short time) makes you a GT350R expert. I dont agree. Although I don't own a '20, I have more experience in GT350Rs than you do. I also feel that my comparison between the knuckle that you have in your beloved '20 R and my CFTP is valid, because I have the same knuckle and steering as you do, in an S550. Let's face it, its an S550 with the same steering components. I think my input is valid where your impressions are one sided and arrogant.

Now back to the point of this thread. Values. Now that the 350 production is over, where do the values go? You bought into this HEP holy grail thing (or as it was presented to you) and you cant stand the fact that the GT350/R values are not going to increase anytime soon. So much for a special and rare car, lol.

I could keep going on and on, but you are either foolish or misinformed. If you seriously think your '20R is better/faster than either my '17 or '18 Rs, come on down to the daytona speedway in the second week of December. I will leave no uncertainty. It would be my pleasure.

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