Electric power cars are the future - change my mind

[Ruby_Ruby19]

I can buy whatever the fastest car is at the moment if i just want to win but I don't like my sports car to sound like a golf cart when it takes off lol. The driving experience takes a huge hit, i like my cars to roar not whine lol. I dread seeing nothing but electrics at the track, can you even mod an electric car? Everyone will be running the same numbers.

Sure anyone can buy a fast car, but at the end of the say my comment is why aren't we pushing for this technology and the aftermarket to come up ways to modify them with new electric motors, transmissions, suspension - there is a million ways to expand on the EV future.

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[Rapid Red]

Not in my future

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

This is the first I've heard of the Model S Plaid. That level of performance for ~$140K is a steal.

Sure, there are a lot of kinks with EVs that need to be figured out but they'll improve over time. I've ridden an electric motorcycle and was in love immediately, I'd expect the same with the proper electric car.

Totally agree- its a steal for the money. Not 1 production car would out 1/4 mile or 1/8th mile it.

There's not many "super cars" that aren't stripped out track only cars that will take it on a course either.

Love it - we just need that tech in our mustangs and cars that we love.

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

45 minutes is too long. Get it down to 4-5, or I'm out. I ain't got time to charge a razor, and I'm not interested in waiting on my car to charge either. There's also no such thing as a free lunch. Tesler hasn't offered free lifetime charging in 2017. Not paying a dime for fuel is therefore an invalid argument point. There is also reckoning coming for the heavy EV that wears down the road without bearing any tax burden. Get ready for a mileage based tax or similar payment.

As for engines dying, yes that's true. The difference is that the hazardous waste parts of the engine (oil, gas, anti-freeze) don't have the tendency to spontaneously burst into flames when exposed to air. The lithium in batteries does. Thus a totally valid point. Metal recycling is a huge, profitable industry. Battery recycling is a dangerous, time-consuming, and expensive process with no establishment behind it.

I'd like to expand on this a bit - I wasn't saying there is cost to EV ownership. Obviously electricity costs, but its not going to amount to anywhere close to fuel charges on a vehicle.

Lithium batteries are packed FULL of valuable metals. Sure its true that there isn't a large recycling effort yet, but once larger Lithium battery packs are available to the market for recycling it will take off.

Iron, aluminum, and steel recycling will still exist the battery packs will have to be removed from the vehicle before processing yes but it will still happen.

As range expands, and prices drop on EV's they will be the future. You just can't get the value per dollar on IE cars

 

[Vlad Soare]

I'd like to expand on this a bit - I wasn't saying there is cost to EV ownership. Obviously electricity costs, but its not going to amount to anywhere close to fuel charges on a vehicle.

It will, when everybody drives an electric car. It almost certainly will. In Europe 70% of the price of gas is taxes. Governments will certainly not be happy to give up on one of their biggest and most prolific cash cows.

Lithium batteries are packed FULL of valuable metals. Sure its true that there isn't a large recycling effort yet, but once larger Lithium battery packs are available to the market for recycling it will take off.

Iron, aluminum, and steel recycling will still exist the battery packs will have to be removed from the vehicle before processing yes but it will still happen.

As range expands, and prices drop on EV's they will be the future. You just can't get the value per dollar on IE cars

That's what we've been hearing over and over for the past twenty years: it will happen, it will take off, it will be, it will, it will. It hasn't happened yet. "It will" doesn't mean anything. We don't need something that will be; we need something that already is.

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

It will, when everybody drives an electric car. It almost certainly will. In Europe 70% of the price of gas is taxes. Governments will definitely not be happy to give up on one of their biggest and most prolific cash cows.


That's the only thing I've been hearing for the past twenty years: it will happen, it will take of, it will be, it will, it will. It hasn't happened yet. "It will" doesn't mean anything. We don't need something that will be; we need something that already is.

I agree that we've been talking about it for 2 decades. The truth is though the technology wasn't there and I think the physical technology is here now, as far as the technology for getting EVs to perform and have range is certainly here. Lucid and Tesla have it down. The infrastructure isn't here yet, which could be government driven and its also due to large auto makers not being ready yet to ditch the ICE technology.

From my perspective if it costs 130k to have a luxury car, that will do 8's in the 1/4, handles like a hyper car, and will go 500 miles on a single charge it is great value that can be trickled down to other cars for far less.

For example wouldn't it be nice to have a mustang with 800hp, run 9s, and get around 400 miles on a single charge? Give it standard Ford suspension like magna ride or the options we have currently for base model GTs, but pack it with the tech that gives us huge EV power. Make it RWD, and allow us to change suspension, gear ratios, and go to work dialing in that to have competition at the tracks. With just the EV power using Fords manufacturing on interior and their Ford user interfaces we could have a serious performer for far less than the Tesla or Lucid.

fact is Tesla's technology can easily be adapted into the cars we love. Personally the Tesla is ugly in my opinion, but it has a lot to offer in performance. Im not advocating for Tesla to dominate the market, but I am a huge advocate for their EV power trains. I for one would pay 50-60k for a 800hp EV mustang GT over 40k for 460hp.

Maybe I'm wrong I am just excited for that type of offering.

 

[tom_sprecher]

I think EV's are the future, but I have no use for one. If I was forced to commute to work everyday I would totally own one. Instead I have worked out of my house and traveled the interstates on business for decades. My Mustang is my business car.

Even though EV's can be very fast they do not punch the right buttons for what I want in a sports car. I don't care much for drag racing. From my experience it's a whole lot of hurry up and wait, and it's over in an instant. I love curves and elevation change. Give me 40 minutes on a track like Road Atlanta or VIR, please.

Also, no sound and no transmission is a non-starter for me.

 

[Vlad Soare]

For example wouldn't it be nice to have a mustang with 800hp, run 9s, and get around 400 miles on a single charge? Give it standard Ford suspension like magna ride or the options we have currently for base model GTs, but pack it with the tech that gives us huge EV power. Make it RWD, and allow us to change suspension, gear ratios, and go to work dialing in that to have competition at the tracks. With just the EV power using Fords manufacturing on interior and their Ford user interfaces we could have a serious performer for far less than the Tesla or Lucid.

Only if I could charge it from 10% to 100% in less than five minutes. And if the places where I could do that were as ubiquitous as gas stations are today. Despite the electric cars themselves having evolved so massively in the last twenty years, we are still as far away from those two criteria of mine as we were twenty years ago. And frankly, I don't think we'll be noticeably closer to them twenty years from now.
One way to get there would be to invent a battery into which you can pump fresh electrolyte while sucking out the spent one. But I guess this isn't feasible, otherwise someone would have suggested and implemented it by now.

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

I think EV's are the future, but I have no use for one. If I was forced to commute to work everyday I would totally own one. Instead I have worked out of my house and traveled the interstates on business for decades. My Mustang is my business car.

Even though EV's can be very fast they do not punch the right buttons for what I want in a sports car. I don't care much for drag racing. From my experience it's a whole lot of hurry up and wait, and it's over in an instant. I love curves and elevation change. Give me 40 minutes on a track like Road Atlanta or VIR, please.

Also, no sound and no transmission is a non-starter for me.

Fair point - if its preference and your liking I can't argue with that.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I for one would pay 50-60k for a 800hp EV mustang GT over 40k for 460hp.

Maybe I'm wrong I am just excited for that type of offering.

You're not wrong. What you're describing does sound appealing indeed. But you must also factor in the cost of the batteries, which is far from trivial. Would you still take it if the batteries cost 20K and had to be replaced every five years?

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

You're not wrong. What you're describing does sound appealing indeed. But you must also factor in the cost of the batteries, which is far from trivial. Would you still take it if the batteries cost 20K and had to be replaced every five years?

Lets say they do cost 20k, and did have to be replaced every 5 years.

A 9 second mustang costs far more than 20k to build. A engine build roughly 6k-9k depending on how you do it. Plus then a 7k super charger or customer fab turbo, then tuning another 1k, then the labor it takes to get it done can be well over 5k if your not doing it yourself. I haven't even factored a fuel system in and also a transmission to hold that power. I know the 10R80 holds well but they do fail as well. most people aren't equipped with a machine shop, or lifts to do the work.

I honestly believe it would be the same as what we're doing now.

I do agree that battery packs in EV's will need a bit more improvement and safety. That I agree with, which is why I think we should be more interested in them. Some folks are just anti battery power, which I get I love my gen 3 exhaust, and my Z06 sounds gnarly with the huge cam I have but at end of the day I fell confident EV is the future now. I've spent thousands upon thousands over the years, id rather just buy a car thats equipped with loads of power, that isn't touchy to fuel, elevation, seasons, tune revisions, and fuel systems, just work on stuff like suspension, and tweaking of amps and have fun.

This is a very complex discussion.

 

[Mazman]

Like this, no contest

Can you explain one thing to me, you mention sound. How does sound win a race?

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

Like this, no contest

That is truly epic man!

 

[Mazman]

Indeed

That is truly epic man!

 

[Ruby_Ruby19]

Doesn't the 9 second Tesla cost $140k? You can have two 9-second Mustangs for that price. I guarantee they'll get more mileage than the batteries in the Tesla. I know I keep beating the dead horse over and over, but it's the batteries stupid!

Right my point is the Tesla is loaded with other stuff, and Telsa doesn't have the manufacturing behind them to cost less. Sure its 140k can you tell me 1 car that runs 8's, has 4 doors, and can beat almost any hypercar around a track? No - there isn't one. Its set a production car record around Laguna Seca which is incredibly impressive.

What I'm getting at is with that tech, we could get the cost way down without the luxury offerings Tesla has, the AI driving, and without all the other gadgets. I would think you could easily get a 800-900hp EV power train, in our Mustangs for 50-60k. I don't need the AI driving system, or their crazy suspension, or the fancy interior, or their stupid TV screen in the car. The mustang chasis would cost a fraction of the price compared to a Tesla.

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