Effect of fuel on power output

[v8hgt]

The way to tell is by data logging the car with each fuel and doing a couple of pulls in 3rd gear from 1500rpm to 7000rpm.

Then you can overlay the logs and look at the timing in each and the knock. You can also measure how long it takes to get to 90mph in each log.

Make sure the air temp is the same and the bit of road is the same for each!

In theory the 99 fuel should allow the ecu to add more negative knock (advance the timing)

I have not tried this myself yet

As mentioned above the Americans use a different unit of measurement for octane.
99RON = 93AKI

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[MakStang]

As Steve said above, on a GT a higher RON fuel will marginally affect power. However on my EcoBoost I only use 100 RON fuel, as my car is tuned, but I was using the same fuel even before tuning it. On the EcoBoost, especially a tuned one, the gains are very noticeable.

My question is what is the max power limit on 100 RON pump gas when upgrading to a better drop-in turbo such as the PTE-NX2 one. It seems that fuel is the limiting factor and I have read that power cannot exceed 350-370 whp, although some say that 390 whp is also possible.

 

[Entai]

As Steve said above, on a GT a higher RON fuel will marginally affect power. However on my EcoBoost I only use 100 RON fuel, as my car is tuned, but I was using the same fuel even before tuning it. On the EcoBoost, especially a tuned one, the gains are very noticeable.

My question is what is the max power limit on 100 RON pump gas when upgrading to a better drop-in turbo such as the PTE-NX2 one. It seems that fuel is the limiting factor and I have read that power cannot exceed 350-370 whp, although some say that 390 whp is also possible.

Not sure where you get such low limits from.

Fuel will never be the limiting factor when going for max power, state of the engine in general will be one limiting factor, plus, mainly, your wallet depth.

Anything is possible if you wish to spend enough.


Lebanon Ford in USA were/are very famous for getting massive power from bolt on kits, (intercooler, turbo, access port and a tune).

550bhp+ from an ecoboost with a $8k kit was common in their marketing (not entirely certain they still do it, but must be possible from somewhere )

So if they are talking crank BHP that means minimum 450 to 470 WHP on what they call a "conservative tune" on stock fuel)


If you want to go seriously mental with costs, I know one guy in the states (Brad Gusler) is well on his way to getting over 800bhp out of his 2.3 ecoboost engine, running 9 second quarter miles, although not a lot of it, other than the block, crank and intake manifold, is standard Factory Ford Ecoboost stuff still.

NIce linky here https://frontstreet.media/2016/10/2...d-brad-guslers-ecoboost-mustang-sets-records/

 

[MakStang]

Well, I get my numbers from Adam who sells this drop-in turbo kit. I don’t think he lies - after all he wants to sell!

The article you quoted is a very nice one and I have read it before, but what it describes is a big turbo, different to the one I am interested in, plus many other supporting mods, some of them custom made for this project car. I think that most of the people here cannot spend this amount of money (at least 15.000 including shipping and taxes). Also I bet you would have to spend much more, because the block would not last long at these power levels. If I wanted to safely reach these power levels, I ‘d buy a GT and modify it.

 

[Entai]

Well, I get my numbers from Adam who sells this drop-in turbo kit. I don’t think he lies - after all he wants to sell!

The article you quoted is a very nice one and I have read it before, but what it describes is a big turbo, different to the one I am interested in, plus many other supporting mods, some of them custom made for this project car. I think that most of the people here cannot spend this amount of money (at least 15.000 including shipping and taxes). Also I bet you would have to spend much more, because the block would not last long at these power levels. If I wanted to safely reach these power levels, I ‘d buy a GT and modify it.

Exactly correct, engine and/or ancillary components will be the limiting factors on extracting max power from a forced induction engine NOT the fuel.

You can easily drop as big a turbo as you wish onto an ecoboost and get 400, 500 600 + BHP from it, running any fuel you wish.

As you say it is looking at longevity with the engine that is the limiting factor, not what fuel it is running.

You want a car to last a long time stick with the standard setup, anything else will reduce the lifespan of various components, to one extent or another.

Doing a correct turbo upgrade, balancing the size with the capacity of the engine and ancillary flow through intake and exhaust, while also fitting all the other absolutely necessary components, like an upgraded inter-cooler, upgraded pipework, probably upgraded exhaust, along with a new custom tune, properly mapped on a dyno and during on road use, will very very easily net you 400+ WHP running any octane fuel you want.

As with any engine higher octane fuels basically purely help the engine last longer as the premium fuels have better additives and detergents than base fuels.

It is purely how much you wish to spend, as with any modification, you get good ones and poor ones.


Oh and by the way, the car in the article will have cost the best part of half a million dollars, or probably more, not 15,000, but costs are not why I linked it, purely to show what can be done if you really want too.

 

[Steeda UK]

US and EU octane rating are measured differently as someone said above, so dont just compare numbers. Performance cars prefer high octane fuel, and a tuned car should DEFINITELY run on high octane fuel.

However the UK for example as compared to the countries has very uniform "good fuel" as our "base" at 95, whereas some countries get a real variety of qualities, hence we are pretty lucky. Also the UK temps are pretty low which also helps us.

 

[marks]

I was reading that the new Shell V Power has changed its formula so that it works better with turbos. Whether this is to the detriment of naturally aspirated engines, or what exactly this means, ive no idea. Although the octane rating remains the same. Ultimately, Ford should design their cars for the higher octane rating so they can improve compression ratios.

 

[steerage250]

I might be exposing Aussies to ridicule here, but it was nice to read this thread and see some sense being written. Whenever the subject comes up in Australia, the thread just gets flooded with ignorant comments like "I only use the best for my car - 98 RON". I've given up joining such discussions.

 

[Steeda UK]

inviting a bunch of people in the UK to ridicule ozzies is a dangerous game...... 8)

But a welcome one!

 

[Little John]

inviting a bunch of people in the UK to ridicule ozzies is a dangerous game...... 8)

But a welcome one!

We need an invitation?!?!?

 

[Charlie Brown]

I might be exposing Aussies to ridicule here, but it was nice to read this thread and see some sense being written. Whenever the subject comes up in Australia, the thread just gets flooded with ignorant comments like "I only use the best for my car - 98 RON". I've given up joining such discussions.

I agree with you loads of people wasting their money on so called premium fuels - waste of money

 

[Manders Mustang]

I was reading that the new Shell V Power has changed its formula so that it works better with turbos. Whether this is to the detriment of naturally aspirated engines, or what exactly this means, ive no idea. Although the octane rating remains the same. Ultimately, Ford should design their cars for the higher octane rating so they can improve compression ratios.

If this is the case, they've increased the ethanol content, a bit like what Tesco's fuel has.... never guess which fuel I run...


They'll probably badge it as "cleaning products" because ethanol content in fuel "cleans" things out but can also bump up octane ratings.

(totally speculating here)

 

[MakStang]

^ yeap!

 

[Centurion07]

Fair point but the V8 is designed to run on the lower octane so knock should not occur particularly with the knock sensor and I would honestly not notice say a 5 or even 10hp increase on my V8 unless I was being timed at the track which I won’t be

I agree with you loads of people wasting their money on so called premium fuels - waste of money

No idea how sensitive your butt dyno is but I noticed the extra 9BHP the PMAS intake gave me and if I can also notice the difference in fuels on a diesel X-Type Jag I used to own, it is most definitely not wasted money.

 

[Charlie Brown]

No idea how sensitive your butt dyno is but I noticed the extra 9BHP the PMAS intake gave me and if I can also notice the difference in fuels on a diesel X-Type Jag I used to own, it is most definitely not wasted money.

I ain’t bothered about 9bhp over 415bhp cos that’s a joke now if you supercharged then fair enough

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