Does a R feel much different from a 2019+ GT350?

[Mr. Maboomba]

Congrats @BuckeyeGT350! Perfect timing.

@Tomster @Egparson202 I am wondering whether it’s worth investing in my base GT350 (roll bar, track wheels, MGW shifter, maybe R spoiler and splitter, etc.) or trading it for a GT350R. The reality of that trade is that I will have to pay $15K more (the cheapest Rs seem to be about $77K right now) plus about $7K in sales taxes (California charges you sales tax on the full value, not the net value of a trade like in some other states). Now that I already own a base car in good condition, it sounds like it would be money better spent to do some basic mods to it versus spending $20K+ on trading up.

Sponsored

 

[Tomster]

Congrats @BuckeyeGT350! Perfect timing.

@Tomster @Egparson202 I am wondering whether it’s worth investing in my base GT350 (roll bar, track wheels, MGW shifter, maybe R spoiler and splitter, etc.) or trading it for a GT350R. The reality of that trade is that I will have to pay $15K more (the cheapest Rs seem to be about $77K right now) plus about $7K in California sales taxes. Now that I already own a base car in good condition, it sounds like it would be money better spent to do some basic mods to it versus spending $20K+ on trading up.

If you don't care about resale value and if I couldn't find an R in the price range that makes sense to me, I would go ahead and throw the upgrades into a 350. A rule of thumb is that you don't ever get the money you put into the car back when you sell it. So either be prepared to return everything to stock and take what the market can get or take the hit.

 

[Mr. Maboomba]

Good point on resale, that is an obvious miscalculation. So it's more about whether to spend $7K on taxes and $1K-$2K on all the various off-cycle maintenance I do when buying a used car and open myself up to another $1500 of depreciation (10% over 2 years x the $15K difference in price), versus investing in the car I have now.

Thinking about it that way, I definitely need to decide if I would really spend the money on forged wheels, an R splitter and spoiler, suspension changes, etc. If I do any of that I should just trade up because I'll quickly spend the $10K difference...

 

[Muligan]

I'm on my third GT350 - first was a '17 (equivalent of an earlier "Track Pack"), second was a Base R, and current is a '16 Track Pack (former FPRS #14).

If you're going to leave it stock or, alternatively try and build a GT350 into a replica R, then buy the R from the outset - you'll be money ahead in the end and have better upside potential on the resale end.

But, if you're going to build a serious track car, you may be jettisoning a bunch of the R stuff down the road and doing irreversible modifications, so it would make more economic sense to start with a regular GT350 (at least if talking '19/'20 - or one with a Gen2 engine in it already).

That said, there are a few guys around here who've built awesome track cars starting with an R. It's just that in those cases, beyond the red badges, accent pinstriping and interior (if it hasn't been gutted), there's not much of the R left.

With my Base R, I felt more like a caretaker and couldn't bring myself to tear it apart or beat on it. My solution was a track-rat of a former schoolhouse car that's been rode hard and put up wet, but otherwise has good bones.

 

[matthewr87]

I guess the question is: what are you going to be using the car for?

If it is a collector's showpiece then buying an unmolested GT350R right now will be $$$$$

If it is for heavy track use and squeezing every hundredth of a second out of a laptime, then you will have to mod the R anyway.

If it is for casual track use then the difference between the GT350 and the GT350R won't be meaningful.

If it is solely for the feeling of owning an R vs the plain Jane GT350, then only you know what that feeling is worth to you money-wise.

 

[gmuffley]

There is a YouTube video of a professional driver (I think from the Corvette racing team) comparing a 2019 GT 350 versus the 2019 GT 350R at the National Corvette Museum track. The difference was 1.5 seconds, which he attributed to the greater mechanical grip of the R's tires.

 

[Angrey]

When the 2016 first came out, this subject was debated endlessly. Although the improvements of the R are incremental in nature, they are noticeable. The real question is, could you replicate those improvements yourself for less money. Could you take a non-R and get all or most of the performance improvements of an R and do it for less. And the answer is, yes. You can drop the 33 lb wheels for a set of quality forged wheels that are 2-3 lbs heavier than the CF wheels. Truthfully a good portion of R owners put their CF wheels up in the garage and run a set of forged because the wheels are ridiculously expensive to replace and a lot of places won't even touch them (including some dealerships). You can swap out the rubber (back when it was MPSS or 4S) and the wheels and dump the resonator, install different springs and sways and voila, you're 99%+ of the performance of the R. 50% of the R's performance gap was due to Cup2 tires which weren't just lighter and smaller (artificial gearing advantage) but better performing. The aero and some minor suspension tweaks were the other half.

So that's the discussion about performance and cost (raw value).

The next question is about absolute value. Is a Tiffany diamond of the same cut/clarity/weight worth more than a generic brand diamond? The market says yes. Part of absolute value is perception and non-performance based perceptions and evaluations.

So the answer is yes and yes. Yes you could replicate MOST of the raw performance of an R and do it cheaper than Ford's version. Yes it's worth the extra money because others believe it is and when you go to sell it, you'll get the extra cost back out of it. The R is a limited and special car.

So basically, if you want a track rat car and you're tryna do it as economically as possible, get the non-R and modify to your liking. If you want to drop the extra cash, do so and rest confidently that you have a rare and special car and the extra money is there in stored value.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I have both. They do drive differently, and gets more pronounced the harder you push them. That being said, the wheels are a major item but it’s not just wheels. There are aftermarket alternatives to get the weight down if you go a regular 350 route. Me personally I’m not concerned about damaging a carbon fiber wheel. Way overblown. There both awesome, and not a bad decision either way. Obviously it comes down to dollars.

 

[ecoboost321]

Great advice and responses in this thread. Also, if you decide to just buy dedicated set of wheels/tires for the track with your GT350, can run a square setup versus the GT350R CF wheel staggered set.

 

[Egparson202]

Congrats @BuckeyeGT350! Perfect timing.

@Tomster @Egparson202 I am wondering whether it’s worth investing in my base GT350 (roll bar, track wheels, MGW shifter, maybe R spoiler and splitter, etc.) or trading it for a GT350R. The reality of that trade is that I will have to pay $15K more (the cheapest Rs seem to be about $77K right now) plus about $7K in sales taxes (California charges you sales tax on the full value, not the net value of a trade like in some other states). Now that I already own a base car in good condition, it sounds like it would be money better spent to do some basic mods to it versus spending $20K+ on trading up.

I’m currently progressing along the mod path you laid out above on my 350. It’s working out really well so far. I have a few thoughts that may help you decide.

• You won’t get the tax money back in a resale. I wouldn’t want to pay tax twice.
• There’s always gonna be somebody there with something faster. If you stick with a stock R, it will be me or someone else with a modded non-R
• It’s better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Spend the tax savings on track time and instruction. Make the driver fast. You can work on the car later.
• As said earlier, if lap times are your true goal, you’ll end up modding the R about as much as the non-R. You'll just have cooler takeoffs.

Bottom line: You can do a lot to improve the car and the driver with the money you save by using the car you have. Whatever you decide… no regrets.

 

[Chumley]

Haven't driven either on a track but have driven a 16 & 19 GT350 and a '20 GT350R as well as my own '20 GT350. All driven extensively on the street only. To me (and perhaps only me) there is a bigger difference in the 16 vs 20 non-R than the 20 vs 20 r & non r. Sound on the non-resonated R is the most obvious difference you notice off the bat in street driving.

I'm far from a track expert but have driven other cars at Homestead, Sebring and a few other short courses around Florida and I'm ashamed to say I can't really feel a definable difference in steering feel that I would think I should given how big the difference in wheel weight is - again, my sample set is limited to driving at around town at speeds < 70-80mph max.

If you're looking for an investment and don't plan on running up the mileage, the R is definitely the better bet.

 

[SchnellGT350]

It’s pretty amazing how inexpensive suspension upgrades are for these cars. I basically ordered Steeda’s full set of offerings (short of replacing the k member) and thank I’m in it for just about $3k - that would have scratched at the same parts on my old built 930. Improvement has been very noticeable. Knowing myself, I would have liked to have the R just to have it but by the time I got in the game Ford had stopped producing the rear seat retro fit kit and I had promised the littles a back seat in this ride. My plan is to get a hood set of forged wheels and up-rate the rubber and call it a day. Not having the huge front splitter actually makes my life easier

 

[svttim]

I must add that I seriously considered updating my 2019 GT350 with R components. Given the overall cost and the fragility of the carbon fiber wheels, along with the overall closeness of the two versions, I decided that for pure road usage it's not worth it. The CR wheels would be very nice,
but ..........

Can we stop the fragility bs please. The CF wheels are much stronger than a forged aluminum wheel. I wring everything I can out of my R with the Carbon Fiber wheels at the track where they make a large difference,

Now, back to the OP. The difference between the 19 and the 19R is not as significant as the earlier years. Times at VIR we cut from approximately 4 seconds to 2 seconds. That time is a combination of suspension, suspension tuning, aero, tires and wheels. But as track times go, the driver is always the limiting factor.

There are numerous reasons to purchase an R. If you want the fastest GT350 out of the box, you get the R. No more well, its about the tires or the wheels. Its faster.

For me, a lot of it was about getting the R. I missed the 93, the 95 and the 2000 R. I decided I wasn't missing this one. However, the R was not 20K more when I purchased mine. And that would have been a deal breaker for me. The 2019/20 GT350 base is a great car, a real improvement over previous years. And as others have said, you can chase track time with upgrades,

As you ask opinions ,the key to that the decision is that it is a personal one. There is no way to use my justifications or anyone else's for you.

 

[Angrey]

Can we stop the fragility bs please. The CF wheels are much stronger than a forged aluminum wheel. I wring everything I can out of my R with the Carbon Fiber wheels at the track where they make a large difference,

Now, back to the OP. The difference between the 19 and the 19R is not as significant as the earlier years. Times at VIR we cut from approximately 4 seconds to 2 seconds. That time is a combination of suspension, suspension tuning, aero, tires and wheels. But as track times go, the driver is always the limiting factor.

There are numerous reasons to purchase an R. If you want the fastest GT350 out of the box, you get the R. No more well, its about the tires or the wheels. Its faster.

For me, a lot of it was about getting the R. I missed the 93, the 95 and the 2000 R. I decided I wasn't missing this one. However, the R was not 20K more when I purchased mine. And that would have been a deal breaker for me. The 2019/20 GT350 base is a great car, a real improvement over previous years. And as others have said, you can chase track time with upgrades,

As you ask opinions ,the key to that the decision is that it is a personal one. There is no way to use my justifications or anyone else's for you.

Brush them against something and see what happens. A set of $5k forged wheels can all be replaced for the price of one damaged CF wheel. No one is saying it's potholes or stress that's the threat, it's road debris, etc.

If you're brave enough, knock it out. I have the same issues/concerns with OTHER CF pieces on my car. Sure they're strong and look great and function well. But they aren't forgiving. I have a QA-1 driveshaft. Looks beautiful, performs wonderfully. But it's not nearly as robust for resisting damage from rock chips or all the other bullshit that somehow finds its way on public roadways.

The gap between the CF wheels and the OE non-R cast wheels is huge. The gap between the CF wheels and a quality set of Forged wheels isn't all that much. You're talking a couple lbs and some stiffness.

And again, you're claiming the 2019/2020 are somehow drastically different and aside from different rubber, they're essentially the same car. If you reject the rose colored myth about oil consumption, the "2nd gen" 350's are a couple minor suspension setting tweaks and better rubber. The rest of the improvements aren't impactful to performance (the block, the radiator support, etc). I guess maybe the "swing" could be considered impactful. We'll include that as well, but if you put the same driver (on the same rubber) in a 2017 and ran it against a 2019, the differences would be minimal.

 

[wingnutt]

an older, possibly wiser long-time member here told me something poignant when I was shopping for mine…

”if you want an R but buy a 350…you will always want an R”

…so just get the R and end the discussion

Sponsored