Do you want to see an AWD Mustang? Is it still a Mustang?

[Hack]

Could I entice you with an aluminum frame and paneling?

I'd love high tech materials, but I already am not in love with the price. I know that few agree with me, but I'd like to see the Mustang get simpler and NOT more expensive/complicated.

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[Norm Peterson]

Could I entice you with an aluminum frame and paneling?

For paneling, perhaps.

It gets more complicated when you're talking about structural elements, with aluminum only being about 1/3 as rigid as steel and not having an "endurance limit". The rigidity matter comes into play when you're talking about chassis bending and torsional stiffnesses, where an aluminum structural element would need to be considerably bulkier or made of substantially thicker metal in order to maintain the same stiffnesses, and in the end you might well end up being more than half as heavy as steel rather than only 1/3 as heavy as the relative densities might suggest.

As a first-cut stiffness evaluation - if you don't simply make everything about three times as thick to get the stiffness back, you'd also have to either find or make room to put bulkier sills, stiffeners, K-members/subframes, and cradles. As tight as things already are, expect something to have to give - perhaps fuel capacity, luggage capacity, entry/exit, ground clearance, roof pillar bulkiness, overall vehicle bulk. I'm sure that the pencil can be sharpened some as far as stiffnesses are concerned, but that still leaves you with endurance limit and strength matters (think passenger cell integrity during a crash). Addressing either consideration would generally add weight.


I'm pretty sure that the "aluminum" F150 is aluminum paneling on a steel frame, a matter of choosing the right material for the purpose.


Norm

 

[OX1]

11.3 second ET capability at 20°F won't make your car stop or steer any better. What it will be more likely to do is get you into trouble that you can't get yourself out of even with all of the nannies left on.



That's still 150 lbs of dead weight - in the wrong place for forward acceleration if you do shut it down past some speed. In the right place if you like extra understeer, though.


Norm

Not really the point. I know you don't care, but a huge percentage of the public loves taking off like a bat out of hell from a dead stop, even if it's only 0-40 MPH and then shut it down. Isn't that the bid deal with these new electrics?

I'm @ 3610 now with the blower (yes, some weight savings and a base S197 GT to start with) and I only weigh 150 lbs. Yet plenty of 4400-4600 lb hellcats running around. Even if I added 130 lbs to sprung weight, the benefit of a very spirited street launch, especially @ 90 degrees into 60 MPH traffic, will more than make up for any handling/braking loss (again, for my purposes). Today's cars are so good, you have to be a real moron to wreck one, even with a car that traps 130 like I have.

So yes, I 100% understand the argument for a lighter, more balanced, normally aspirated, higher hp, car for hustling around a nice clip on the street (not just drag type stuff) or full out on the track, but that's not what my car was built for.

I kind of hope no one makes this in wheel motor/spare tire size battery pack add on kit I'm talking about, because I will start a business doing it and I'm thinking many old and new muscle car owners would love the traction for safer/easier crap weather driving or just giving those pure electrics a run (without having to give up the V-8 sound/man trans experience in their current ride). Most would probably trade off even a 200 lb increase for the nice hole shot alone.

Might even be able to go 20 miles or so on pure electric (especially as battery tech keeps advancing). Might HAVE to soon in even US cities or might want to just to do a short commute/grocery store run and never have to fire up the ICE.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not really the point. I know you don't care, but a huge percentage of the public loves taking off like a bat out of hell from a dead stop, even if it's only 0-40 MPH and then shut it down. Isn't that the bid deal with these new electrics?

You'd never know that from around where I live, and I'm not all that far from Atco. Or Philly, which at least used to have a pretty serious street scene.

Seriously, I can't even remember the last time I saw another car jump away from the light like that. Don't even hear it any more, except for one Subaru, the odd motorcycle, and the occasional loud truck that really isn't all that fast.


What concerns me about AWD (and AWD EV in particular) for performance as opposed to off-road capability is that it can land you in trouble faster without giving you any help toward getting you out of it. Cars & Coffee departures readily prove that there's no shortage of people getting out past what their car's capabilities (and their own skill set) can support.


Norm

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