DIY Whipple on a budget (of sorts).

[RTVgav]

An awesome write-up Burkey. As said before, thanks for taking the time and effort to document the journey so far.

I've had a Harrop TVS kit fitted now for 7 months and have used a trusted tuner here in Perth to install (the easy part) and tune (the tricky part) using HP Tuner software. The lowdown and transition response is definitely the challenge on these setups, but with persistence it is possible to get near factory-like feel.

I found that the torque request versus throttle opening table makes a huge difference with respect to how the car feels during these transition zones. I'm by no means a tuning specialist, but I worked closely with my tuner to get a good compromise between snappy response and unexpected wheel spin in low gears.

Remember that each driving mode has it's own table of values for these - so I tuned the normal mode quite conservative (i.e. "doughy") and the sport/track mode very aggressive. Just remember not to let the unexperienced drive the car in the aggressive modes in the wet!

Lastly - do you know if there is any programming in the body module to re-calibrate the MAP/vacuum output on the centre display? My display only reads to 0mm Hg and I would like to be able to show boost as well.

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[Burkey]

An awesome write-up Burkey. As said before, thanks for taking the time and effort to document the journey so far.

I've had a Harrop TVS kit fitted now for 7 months and have used a trusted tuner here in Perth to install (the easy part) and tune (the tricky part) using HP Tuner software. The lowdown and transition response is definitely the challenge on these setups, but with persistence it is possible to get near factory-like feel.

I found that the torque request versus throttle opening table makes a huge difference with respect to how the car feels during these transition zones. I'm by no means a tuning specialist, but I worked closely with my tuner to get a good compromise between snappy response and unexpected wheel spin in low gears.

Remember that each driving mode has it's own table of values for these - so I tuned the normal mode quite conservative (i.e. "doughy") and the sport/track mode very aggressive. Just remember not to let the unexperienced drive the car in the aggressive modes in the wet!

Lastly - do you know if there is any programming in the body module to re-calibrate the MAP/vacuum output on the centre display? My display only reads to 0mm Hg and I would like to be able to show boost as well.

Thanks Gav :cheers:

Yes, there’s certainly room to play with driver demand tables.
Honestly, I’m happy with the pedal feel and progression. It just needs the ignition timing to ramp in more aggressively from those lower rpms.
If I’m 100% pedal and the blade is 85% (full open value), I’d like to see more than 5 degrees of spark at that point. Yes, tip-in is always a consideration, but that should happen fairly quickly and I see nothing in the logs to suggest that torque source 5 (tip-in) is a problem. To me it looks more like it stems from the load values and how they demand the spark.

I haven’t played with the driver modes tbh. I’m a firm believer that I should be able to get in the car and drive it like I want without having to flip too many switches.

FYI, Brendan Caunt at Xpiggy customs has created a loom and switch that intercepts the magic plug at the airbox. Flip the switch in the cabin, ESC/TC OFF. No pressing and holding buttons for 10 seconds every time you start the car.
I’ll be getting one of those as soon as he’s caught up on the backlog.
Sick to death of having the nannies kick in and kill the fun addle:

EDIT: my bad, I missed the bit about the vac gauge. Not sure. Mine reads vac just fine. Not sure that it can read boost sorry. No idea how they’re referencing it. :shrug:

 

[Burkey]

Just a little more technical info for those who may need it.
We checked the logs after playing with the TB voltages.
The difference in cam timing is night and day.
It’s clear that with the voltages slightly off, the cams (in particular) really struggle to move from the economy postion and transition to power (other areas may also struggle, cam timing was the really prevalent one)
I have my own theories on why this is the case, all of which is based on a 3 page thesis covering TB data on the HP tuners forum, written by a rocket scientist. I understood 4% of it.
It’s lengthy and boring, I won’t go into it other than to say that I think it has a lot to do with how the car sees load.
Those who understand tuning better than me will probably see the correlation more clearly.
Just get it right boys and girls, avoid the headaches. :cheers:

 

[SVT-DADDY]

I'll be checking mine on Sat. Couple questions if you don't mind:


The Ngauge doesn't show us TPS voltage does it? I have a scan tool, but I am lazy.



Did you take the TB off the car to adjust?


What values did you achieve?

Just a little more technical info for those who may need it.
We checked the logs after playing with the TB voltages.
The difference in cam timing is night and day.
It’s clear that with the voltages slightly off, the cams (in particular) really struggle to move from the economy postion and transition to power (other areas may also struggle, cam timing was the really prevalent one)
I have my own theories on why this is the case, all of which is based on a 3 page thesis covering TB data on the HP tuners forum, written by a rocket scientist. I understood 4% of it.
It’s lengthy and boring, I won’t go into it other than to say that I think it has a lot to do with how the car sees load.
Those who understand tuning better than me will probably see the correlation more clearly.
Just get it right boys and girls, avoid the headaches. :cheers:

 

[Burkey]

I'll be checking mine on Sat. Couple questions if you don't mind:


The Ngauge doesn't show us TPS voltage does it? I have a scan tool, but I am lazy.



Did you take the TB off the car to adjust?


What values did you achieve?

Steve, here’s the link to the procedure

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=131812&d=1498924286

I made the video below a while back. It’s not perfect, but it might help a bit.

I’d suggest you do this:

Test and record all voltages before commencing. If the static voltages are within spec but the fully closed is off, you may get away with just adjusting the blade position via the two grub screws (one comes in from the back, that’s the locking screw, one from the top, that’s the adjusting screw). 2.5mm allen key from memory.

If that doesn’t work you’ll need to do this:

Mark the current position with a paint pen or similar. I’d actually do this twice. Once from the magnet to securing housing, then once you have the 3 screws out and the housing removed, mark it again, say 180 degrees away, magnet to seated position, using a DIFFERENT colour.
The reference points are important. You WILL get confused at some point and may want to return to where you started...

You need to understand that the relationship between TP2 “static” and TP2 “closed” isn’t linear. Eg.if you started with 0.50 closed and say 0.90 static, dialling it back to get 0.45 won’t necessarily get you 0.85...
Also, TP1 is inverse to the the other two....

As you make changes, record ALL of the voltages.
This will help you to build an understanding of what values get you what readings across the board.

Here’s where it gets crazy...(if it wasn’t already)

On my car, 0.327v was the minimum value possible with the TB closed. eg. That value meant that the magnet was now too far out of range, yours may vary but keep your eye out for readings that don’t seem to make sense.

Here’s the best bit.
If you go too far in a particular direction, the voltages will do the opposite of what you expect.
Eg. You’re trying to bring the TP2 voltage down (static). You rotate the magnet anti-clockwise. The voltage goes UP when it should be going down....

That’s where having the marks comes in handy. Reset, crack a beer, relax, start again.

It’s tedious as shit, you’ll want to throw things and swear a lot. Probably best if you’re alone at this time :frusty:
Set some time aside, grab some beer, relax, record voltages methodically, build a picture of what will work, what won’t.

Enjoy.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

[MENTION=21513]Burkey[/MENTION] Awesome info...thank you! May need to print this.



Didn't have time to get under the hood but resting my TP1 is 4.007, and TP2 is .992.



I suspect my force closed TP2 will be off as well. Might be some room for improvement here, thanks to my pal down under!

 

[Burkey]

[MENTION=21513]Burkey[/MENTION] Awesome info...thank you! May need to print this.



Didn't have time to get under the hood but resting my TP1 is 4.007, and TP2 is .992.



I suspect my force closed TP2 will be off as well. Might be some room for improvement here, thanks to my pal down under!

All good mate.
Based on that, I’m going to predict that your car will be transformed. My settings were nearer than that and it was still shit.
Any dramas, you know my email. Alternatively, I’m happy to help via messenger/face time. :cheers:

 

[Burkey]

Having had the Whipple on the car for a few months now, I felt it was time for an update.
Absolutely ZERO dramas with the car. No snapped/flung belts, nothing.
However...
The fuel pump quit on me on my way to the drag strip last week. That one’s on me. Seems I didnt send one of the plugs all the way home when I installed it....
The result was that I missed qualifying and had to step into racing without a single pass under my belt.
First pass, a nice easy 4K launch (wasn’t sure how the tyres would react, followed by much limiter bashing and generally sloppy driving. (See video)
Second pass, dialled up 5k, sidestepped the clutch, the ECU instantly lost the plot, closing the TB and chucking a wrench on the screen.
Turn off, turn on, all clear.
In closing, despite the driving, it’s the second fastest (known at the time of writing) pass by a manual in Australia and the quickest manual on 98 octane.
There’s definitely more in it. I’m thinking sub 7 at 105 ish when it’s all said and done.
Worth remembering that the NA slip is the best time I ever achieved while the Whipple pass is one of one.

 

[Burkey]

Worst driving ever

 

[FMGTV8]

You can't help it if "shit happens"

Still looking good if your second best 'cause it means you try much harder to be better !!!

ps: (shows you that plugs with cable ties are a great match)

 

[TeamDenno]

Worst driving ever

Not sure what was worse... The driving or the camera skills....

 

[Burkey]

You can't help it if "shit happens"

Still looking good if your second best 'cause it means you try much harder to be better !!!

ps: (shows you that plugs with cable ties are a great match)

Getting used to the extra pull is the big trick. First and second are pointless on the road. Lack of experience using them made for some pretty poor judgement of shift points.
I think “less beer” might be the solution to shitty connections on fuel pumps in future
Hoping for MUCH better things in November. Figure it’s best to get it dialled in on the 1/8th before attempting 1/4 mile stuff.

 

[Burkey]

Not sure what was worse... The driving or the camera skills....

You pay peanuts...

 

[Hornet]

That's some crazy smoke coming out! Is that due to rev limiter/fuel cut off?

 

[Burkey]

That's some crazy smoke coming out! Is that due to rev limiter/fuel cut off?

Rev limiter, yes, fuel cut no.
Significant driver mod required next time around.

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