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Did GT350 values just get bolstered with the S650 reveal?

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Tomster

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The market being down 20% since January, and interest rates continuing to march upwards through mid-2023 (at least), will affect GT350 values in the short term more than yesterday’s introduction of the Darkhorse. And I must have missed something, I wasn’t able to see Ford’s pricing announcement on the Darkhorse with carbon wheels. How much will that car be again?

The point here is that you’ve asserted the Darkhorse is as capable on track (“close enough”) as the GT350, but cheaper. Same power? Same transmission? Same weight? Same brakes? Same suspension? Same tires? Same wheels? And cheaper? What did I miss?

I have no doubt it will be a great car, but I think you may be out over your skis right now.
I was trying to find the same words. Thank you.
 

Tomster

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Unclenard

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In regards to the locked ECU for S650.

Controlling these powertrains is a new electrical architecture, which enabled a host of new features, but it also includes CAN bus authentication and cyber security protocols that will present challenges with regard to aftermarket upgrades.
“My expectation is the CAN bus authentication and cybersecurity effectively limits or eliminates aftermarket tuners,” Ed Krenz, Ford Mustang Chief Nameplate Engineer, states flatly. “There are companies that we’ve partnered with that have the ability within our software to do their aftermarket tuning, and they can still make those calibrations available. But they really have to be working within the Ford software environment and it can’t just exhale our code and inhale new code. That isn’t going to work anymore.”
 

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MAGS1

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In regards to the locked ECU for S650.

Controlling these powertrains is a new electrical architecture, which enabled a host of new features, but it also includes CAN bus authentication and cyber security protocols that will present challenges with regard to aftermarket upgrades.
“My expectation is the CAN bus authentication and cybersecurity effectively limits or eliminates aftermarket tuners,” Ed Krenz, Ford Mustang Chief Nameplate Engineer, states flatly. “There are companies that we’ve partnered with that have the ability within our software to do their aftermarket tuning, and they can still make those calibrations available. But they really have to be working within the Ford software environment and it can’t just exhale our code and inhale new code. That isn’t going to work anymore.”
So basically they’re going to give traditional partners like Roush, Saleen and Shelby access and everyone else is locked out. Unless I missed something, I don’t think anyone has been able to crack the C8 yet and it’s approaching 3 years now so good luck to guys like Lund, PBD, etc.
 

tobaccokid

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Personally I think they needed to have a "new" 7th generation because they didn't want to pull a Dodge and sell the same model for 15 years. So they took an S550, made some largely iterative changes (aside from the interior, which is just whack anyway) and called it a new generation. Arguably the change from 05+ to the 2011+ was more significant, but was still just a "mid-cycle refresh".

As far as values go, all I know is that the 57K I paid for my GT350 back in 2019 is worth around 66K today, which is right what these cars are valued at. So the actual real change in value since I purchased mine is right around a big ol'ZERO.
I think there is a chance values will go up. Although it's hard to separate any increase into two factors, i.e. no more GT350's, and the new design. Not sure why it is but I regularly get offered far more that the stated $66K for my 2019 GT350 Kona Blue/White strip car.
 

svttim

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they always say stuff like this and then we figure out a way to unlock it.

nothing is hack proof.

but yeah the darkhorse is a 350 replacement for sure.
Yes but I think we are seeing the end to that. Unless your Roush or Shelby, it is probably not going to happen. We are at the end of a very long era, for me, sadly

The Darkhorse is not the 350 replacement. If anything was it was the Mach 1. When the 350 came out it replaced the Boss 302. As capable as the Boss was there was a clear advantage for the 350, When the Mach 1 came out it was within a breath of being a 350. The only car to be much faster was the GT500 with its supercharger and gobs of power. Now we have the Dark horse, as capable as the 350 with a little less power. (on track I dont think you will see a difference). When you talk replacement, you are talking a marketing slot, not equaling the 350 then you have to say Mach 1. The Darkhorse is the replacement for the Mach 1 and it improves on that car.

As far as Shelby owners go, we are not all the same. Like Tomster, I run the crap out of mine. The only reason I'm a bit relieved that the new car is not something that bowls me over is I dont need another bank loan and a divorce attorney. DH is going to take a long time to become something comparable to Boss or Mach 1, both storied marks, Shelby is at another level . Not because the car is better but because of the history. It was earned by guys name McDonald, Titus and Miles. It was earned by Carroll. Not everybody gets that. Not all Shelby owners get that. Its not my car is better than yours. The history is unequaled though.
 

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I think it's comical how short everyone's memory is. Ford didn't announce the GT350 until almost a year after they announced the base S550 chassis. No manufacturer ever releases the entire breadth of their product offerings on day 1 of the launch.

The Dark Horse package is here to replace the PP2, Mach 1, Bullit for the first few model years. With the 5.2 block still sitting in the wings there's easy room for another few models above the Dark Horse with slightly larger displacement and NA or a boosted application.
 
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stanglife

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The Dark Horse is just as track capable with the same Tremec transmission. It as the Gen 4 Coyote making 500hp. instead of the voodoo making 526. Outside of the Voodoo the car is the basically the same. IMHO The Dark Horse is replacing the 350 in the performance line. What else is unique outside of the engine and cosmetics?
New cars will come and go and damn, I HOPE they improve the performance on them, and the track capabilities surpass the GT350 by a lot. Just like all notable drivers cars of the past, new, faster cars take nothing away from a car with styling, performance, dynamics and uniqueness of the GT350 and GT350R.

I was looking forward to another ultimate Mustang but simply, this is not it. If someone already has a GT350 or a GT350R...or was shopping for one as the great driver cars that they are - they are not going be swayed by the "Dark Horse".

I think some are missing the point here. This isn’t a contest about which car is better. The thread is about the perceived value of the 350 based on the new Mustang. The DH gives you almost exactly what the 350 offers in terms of performance. Of course there will be adm’s and a limited supply but these cars will be released and improved upon for years to come. The short term value of the 350 won’t be affected positively because the new car is so close to what the 350 is. If I’m in the market and deciding between the two my bet is that most will go with the DH vs overpaying for a used 350 with well known engine issues.
Funny all your posts are in this thread. You know what else the "DH" gets you - a stupid name that also shares an acronym with Dick Head. You can't unsee this:
1663332407880.png


@administrator - does this guys IP match any already known GT350 forum trolls? I bet yes, lol.
 

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New cars will come and go and damn, I HOPE they improve the performance on them, and the track capabilities surpass the GT350 by a lot. Just like all notable drivers cars of the past, new, faster cars take nothing away from a car with styling, performance, dynamics and uniqueness of the GT350 and GT350R.

I was looking forward to another ultimate Mustang but simply, this is not it. If someone already has a GT350 or a GT350R...or was shopping for one as the great driver cars that they are - they are not going be swayed by the "Dark Horse".



Funny all your posts are in this thread. You know what else the "DH" gets you - a stupid name that also shares an acronym with Dick Head. You can't unsee this:
1663332407880.png


@administrator - does this guys IP match any already known GT350 forum trolls? I bet yes, lol.
Of course not. As @stanglife correctly pointed out above your post, the new "ultimate" Mustang will not launch at the same time as the new generation. Ford's got to milk this generation for all it's worth so you start with the 3 "base" versions and then over the following 7 years or so you throw in 1 or 2 new "ultimates" as well as a mid cycle refresh to maximize interest/demand. So I think a proper Shelby replacement is yet yo come and it may as well be a Shelby or potentially something else.
 

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True retro styling inside and out (including analog gauges and mechanical handbrake), and unique V8 that revs to the moon and sounds unlike anything else, the GT350/GT350R will be a desired performance mustang for years to come. In a different league from the Dark Horse, or whatever else Ford comes up with in the future, despite the specs or performance numbers on paper. As I’ve said before, that last 1000 rpm of the Voodoo motor on track is magical !
 

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I'm sure someone started this same topic about s197 values.
 

matthewr87

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The car itself is just fine actually. I think it is neat that Ford is still willing to make a track focused NA V8 2+2 with a manual transmission. As enthusiasts we should all celebrate that and it will be dearly missed in the not so distant future. The name though is an absolutely hilarious and childish trope; it is the equivalent of naming the car "The Lone Wolf". Ooooooo scary and badass. It is a name that will appeal to 13 year old boys, emo kids, and the 35 year old man-child that still wears his Affliction T-shirt while frequenting his local strip bar because he is convinced that Candy really likes him.

I understand that they were trying to stay with the equine theme, but they could also have drawn on some aviation heritage instead. If they really wanted to stick with the dark and emo messaging, they could have called it the Nighthawk or the Blackbird, or maybe even the Phantom. At some point I am going to see a Dark Horse in the paddock and I'm going to go up to the emo Dwayne Johnson owner and I'm going to say "Hey that's a sweet Dark Horse man"....so fucking cringey :giggle:
 

ecoboost321

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The car itself is just fine actually. I think it is neat that Ford is still willing to make a track focused NA V8 2+2 with a manual transmission. As enthusiasts we should all celebrate that and it will be dearly missed in the not so distant future. The name though is an absolutely hilarious and childish trope; it is the equivalent of naming the car "The Lone Wolf". Ooooooo scary and badass. It is a name that will appeal to 13 year old boys, emo kids, and the 35 year old man-child that still wears his Affliction T-shirt while frequenting his local strip bar because he is convinced that Candy really likes him.

I understand that they were trying to stay with the equine theme, but they could also have drawn on some aviation heritage instead. If they really wanted to stick with the dark and emo messaging, they could have called it the Nighthawk or the Blackbird, or maybe even the Phantom. At some point I am going to see a Dark Horse in the paddock and I'm going to go up to the emo Dwayne Johnson owner and I'm going to say "Hey that's a sweet Dark Horse man"....so fucking cringey :giggle:

“If the car's good, the name won't matter, and if it's no good, the name won't matter." -Carroll Shelby
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