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Diagnostics and Tuning Device Questions

Torinate

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Ok. Got the car out finally and I’m determined to find the issues that have plagued me for the last few years.

No code Idle misfires and a hesitation as soon as I step on the gas. The idle misfires are still there as they have been as is the hesitation. Hesitation is sporadic and not every time though.

Forscan confirms the misfires. My butt confirms the hesitation.

Would these show up in logs? If I got an MPVI3 or RTD3 and logged through VCM would that help in diagnosing this?

Is there any way the nGauge can monitor misfires?

Is there any tuning device that can as well? I’m looking for something - anything that will pinpoint or at least point me in the direction to fix this.

I’ve read a lot about the PCMTech and wondered if their software could isolate the issue. I’m confused on the pricing structure though. After reading the big thread on it, page 18 says like $200 but the website directs me to something way more money lol. Could be just me though…

I’m at the point now where I’m contemplating getting a new tune from a different tuner just to find out if that corrects it.

I don’t know if this is tune related or mechanical. Nothing I’ve done so far has solved anything or provided any hint to the issue. I have a different thread for idle misfires and hesitation that explains what all I’ve done.

I’d like to pull the injectors but dread having to do this as this was the single hardest thing to do on the install of the Edelbrock. The job would be large but I would gladly do it if I knew that was the issue. Is there any way to know for sure or at least with a high probability that they are the issue? There’s a few places close by that professionally clean and flow test injectors so getting that part done is easy.

What would you do? Spend the money for a new tune to “see” if that is the issue of where would you start to diagnose this? New tune with device in Canadian funds is likely about $1500. Again, if I knew this is the fix I’d be all over it.

Are there any diagnostic tools out there that could realistically tell what the issue is? I’m with Lund, so even if Ford hooked up to it, would they be able to read what the car is doing? There are no real ford performance shops that are trustworthy to have a look and diagnose. I think what I would end up with is a $1000 bill and an excuse they couldn’t find anything wrong.

So that’s where I’m at.

Looking for diagnostic information or tool that can help me find the problem.

Sorry for the long post. I know some of you have helped already in this but I’m still back at the same place.

Thanks in advance!
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Pistol_91

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What did your tooner tell you? If it's not tune related logging it may or may not help you. The RTD would probably be your cheapest option but not sure tbh. If you're already tuned wouldn't you already have one? Or do you have an old tune through the ngauge?
 
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Torinate

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Tuner doesn’t want to play “mail order mechanic”. Said I could send a log in but they won’t find anything…. Basically didn’t really want help investigate or look for a problem. Again, not sure it’s the tune or a mechanical issue, but there’s something wrong.

Car is tuned using the nGauge. This was before the RTD was even a thing. Not sure the capabilities of the RTD if they’re more advanced than the nGauge or not. I was told the nGauge logs took a long time to convert to VCM but I can load logs into VCM scanner without any conversion. These are excel and VCM will load them. Unfortunately, I don’t know exactly what to look for as far as finding the problem.
 

Pistol_91

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The last time I loaded a log from the ngauge into vcm it looked funky as hell and had strange readings. Plus it only shows a couple parameters. The RTD will be able to log just like the MPVI as far as I know as long as you have a channel list loaded into it as well. The vcm scanner logging is much better than an ngauge logging. Contact wengerd he may have the time and be nice enough to look at a log for you, I've seen him do it for guys on here in the past and help out tremendously.
 
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Torinate

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The last time I loaded a log from the ngauge into vcm it looked funky as hell and had strange readings. Plus it only shows a couple parameters. The RTD will be able to log just like the MPVI as far as I know as long as you have a channel list loaded into it as well. The vcm scanner logging is much better than an ngauge logging. Contact wengerd he may have the time and be nice enough to look at a log for you, I've seen him do it for guys on here in the past and help out tremendously.
I’ve read some good things about him.

Strange though, but maybe I’m doing it wrong. When I’m in VCM scanner and open a log, it will show all the channels that are in the log. Now as far as being funky, I only have my own logs so nothing to compare to. So
They could be. Will the RTD log mode 6 data? Forscan is cumbersome I find.

The whole goal though is to find the problem - whether it’s the tune or a mechanical issue. I will need a new tune though as I have a new PMAS intake to go on like another member did. But I don’t whether to go ahead with that first or find the problem first.
 

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Torinate

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Noticed you’re in Clearwater. I used to live and work there… 30 years ago lol.

Back with my old Fox body then - Gandy bridge and top of 4th street. Is the 1/8 mile track still there? Sunshine speedway I think it was.
 

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The RTD is limited, if going with HP tuners I'd get the MPVI3. Lund tune? Yea they don't like trouble shooting, and nothing is ever the tune. Even when it is.
 

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My guess is that VCMScanner, as much as I like it, won't be able to help much in this situation.

PCMTech logger is insanely capable but could also drive you insane. They have thousands of parameters available for logging but finding the right ones and learning how to interpret the data can drive you nuts. It's also ridiculously fast so it can catch things that other loggers will miss.

I think the Ford IDS tool is actually what you need to correctly identify and diagnose misfires. It has some functionality specifically designed for this situation.
 
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Torinate

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My guess is that VCMScanner, as much as I like it, won't be able to help much in this situation.

PCMTech logger is insanely capable but could also drive you insane. They have thousands of parameters available for logging but finding the right ones and learning how to interpret the data can drive you nuts. It's also ridiculously fast so it can catch things that other loggers will miss.

I think the Ford IDS tool is actually what you need to correctly identify and diagnose misfires. It has some functionality specifically designed for this situation.
Thanks Mike.

Will the Ford IDS have issues connecting though as my tune will be scrambled aka Lund.

Or will the IDS not actually look at the tune the same way ForScan doesn’t?

Will any of these be able to narrow down the cause? Can it determine an injector issue? From the code standpoint, there’s nothing. However, I don’t really think there’s a way to determine if an injector was leaky. The misfires are random and not consistent cylinder wise. I would not think that all the injectors would have a sporadic leak.

Would the IDS be able to pick up the issue with the hesitation?

Wondering if there is 2 separate issues really. The first is the misfire at hot idle. Doesn’t appear to do it during warm up. The second is the inconsistent sputtering when pulling away from a stop. It will almost always do it when cold, but not as much when warm.

I think the PCMTech would be beyond my abilities to manage this. Too much data that I wouldn’t be able to decipher.

So not looking like even a good log will show the issue, which is disappointing but understandable.

Any other thoughts on how figure this out? I take it Ford’s IDS is likely the most advanced thing to determine this.
 

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The ford tech might initially hit a roadblock with ids due to “non-oem calibration detected”. A good tech can get around this by manually entering the correct as built. I’m not well versed on this; just know they may have an issue but it can be worked around.
 
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Torinate

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Oh great… wonder if the changes I’ve made in Forscan will get erased lol.
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