Defunding the Police - disbanding them

Bikeman315

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Well its been acceptable for POLICE to shoot someone in the back under certain circumstances according to Supreme court rulings: "necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

So it comes down to did that apply here. He was definitely trying to escape. He had taken a weapon (taser) that has caused the death of ~500 people from an officer. Courts with jurisdiction in that area have ruled that a taser is a deadly weapon when used by a defendant in court cases.

Legally, he may get off based on those facts. It doesn't mean he should have done it. For one, that particular model of taser doesn't appear to be that deadly since the suspect was already hit with (at least one) identical taser of another officer and didn't seem to phase him.

There is plenty of video/audio. I don't see even the slightest clue. Good chance we will never know why he did that.
I am really struggling with this. On one hand we have a dead father of four (I don't care what color he is). On the other hand we have this.

1. He was a 27 year old man with four children. Why the f-ck was he out drinking and driving?
2. Somebody at Wendy's called the police when he fell asleep behind the wheel while in the drive through lane. Overreaction maybe but it started the wheels in motion.
3. OK, police arrive, have him move his car and start talking to him. All is well.
4. Still talking. Breathalyzer test, fails. Officer decides to place man under arrest as allowed by law in Georgia.
5. As soon as the cuffs come out the man starts to resist and continues to fight with the officers. WHY???? What the hell was he thinking? You knew right there this wasn't going to end well.
6. The fight escalates. the man take the taser from the officer. WHAT? Are you kidding me. Is this father of four suicidal?
7. Now the man gets up and runs from the police, turns and fires at one of them. Honestly you cannot make this shit up. What is going through he heads of the officers right now. Are they fearful? Are they thinking about George Floyd?
8. Taser dropped, gun pulled and fired within microseconds. Man is shot in the back. But what was his position when the officer was raising his gun? The second he pulled the trigger? We don't know.

So to me, bottom line is this Mr. Brooks would still be alive if 1-7 above didn't happen. Mr. Brooks was the cause of this situation. Unfortunately this happened when there is so much reaction/overreaction to what has happened in Minneapolis, etc. Now on top of all of this the the media making another circus out of this. I cannot even watch TV at this point. I want to scream at the screen, "homicide is not murder".

At the end of the day, I feel horrible that a husband & father of four died. I fell horrible for his wife and children. I also feel horrible for the officers and their families. They didn't go out on patrol thinking they were going to kill someone that night. And they wouldn't have except for the stupidity of one man who wanted a hamburger.





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shogun32

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Again, I am not taking a side on the outcome BUT I don't consider drunk driving a "little stupid thing". He drove there drunk. He appeared drunk, was appropriately given and failed a breathalyzer test. Drunk driving kills lots of people. I would be upset if the police didn't arrest him.
he didn't hit or injure anyone or anything and of his own (belated) recognizance pulled over to sleep it off. If he was actually operating the vehicle while drunk, sure arrest him. This 'arrest' is not quite as much utter BS as the ones done in the parking lot of the bar where a patron is sleeping it off before operating their vehicle. But taking his keys and making him come to the station to pick them back up again (in addition to the citation) is punishment aplenty.
 

Bikeman315

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Granted the drunk driver should have submitted to being arrested for DUI (since obviously he did drive from wherever he had been drinking to the Wendy's) but likely thought it was an uncalled for punishment. I would actually agree. Cite him, take his keys till end of shift or just drive him to his sister's place and leave the car in a spot. All would have been zero-conflict and no unnecessary escalation.

I think bigger problem here (aside from the obvious) is the failure of the (2nd?) officer to exercise some situational judgement. Is this yet another side-effect of the "zero tolerance" crap infesting our society where finger-guns or pop-tarts with bites taken out of them are dangerous weapons?

It used to be Officer FRIENDLY, not Officer I'm going to blindly Arrest you for every little stupid thing.
Again, I am not taking a side on the outcome BUT I don't consider drunk driving a "little stupid thing". He drove there drunk. He appeared drunk, was appropriately given and failed a breathalyzer test. Drunk driving kills lots of people. I would be upset if the police didn't arrest him.
Gentleman, this is Georgia. The state legislature wrote a law that allows police offices to make arrests for a number of misdemeanor charges. One is drunk driving. The officers were following protocol, period. This was not a situation that called for "officer friendly". This called for serve & protect. How do they know that Mr. Brooks didn't run over and killed someone a mile away? I think they handled themselves properly right up to the moment that Mr. Brooks resisted arrest, starting fighting with the officers, took one of their weapons, ran from and tried to shoot them. At that point all bets are off, the adrenaline is pumping full blast and we get the horrific result that occurred. No sorry, this was not on the officers, this was on Mr. Brooks.
 

shogun32

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5. As soon as the cuffs come out the man starts to resist and continues to fight with the officers. WHY?
because being drunk his thinking is impaired. Critical thought, even trivial logic is difficult to come by. I've DUI'd once. I don't know if I would have failed the brethalizer or not (I had one Long Island ice tea) but I didn't even make it out of the parking lot when I concluded I was in no shape to drive and promptly parked it. Had an officer happened by I likely could have been arrested on the spot simply because I was sitting in my car, even with engine off, keys out (with wife and 2 kids to boot).

I agree that grabbing an officer's weapon was the fatal mistake and sealed the outcome.
 

Bikeman315

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he didn't hit or injure anyone or anything and of his own (belated) recognizance pulled over to sleep it off. If he was actually operating the vehicle while drunk, sure arrest him. This 'arrest' is not quite as much utter BS as the ones done in the parking lot of the bar where a patron is sleeping it off before operating their vehicle. But taking his keys and making him come to the station to pick them back up again (in addition to the citation) is punishment aplenty.
How do you know that? How do you know what he did before he entered the Wendy's parking lot? How do you know that he didn't kill someone? Answer, you don't and neither did the officers. Oh, and by the way, he was asleep, drunk, behind the wheel of a running motor vehicle. If that doesn't call for an arrest, I do not know what does.
 

HoosierDaddy

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taking his keys and making him come to the station to pick them back up again (in addition to the citation) is punishment aplenty.
I don't know if you just feel you need to defend a previous statement, but do you honestly feel nobody should be arrested for drunk driving unless they already hurt or killed someone? He drove drunk on public roads, unless you are of the opinion he drove sober to Wendy's and proceeded to get smashed in the drive thru line OR some friends with a helicopter deposited him and his car in the drive thru line as a prank when they saw him passed out or asleep in the car. The cops didn't make the law that said you arrest a drunk driver and they could not possibly have been any more polite and professional before the driver attacked them.
 

HoosierDaddy

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because being drunk his thinking is impaired. Critical thought, even trivial logic is difficult to come by. I've DUI'd once. I don't know if I would have failed the brethalizer or not (I had one Long Island ice tea) but I didn't even make it out of the parking lot when I concluded I was in no shape to drive and promptly parked it. Had an officer happened by I likely could have been arrested on the spot simply because I was sitting in my car, even with engine off, keys out (with wife and 2 kids to boot).

I agree that grabbing an officer's weapon was the fatal mistake and sealed the outcome.
Not to nitpick because what happened before he attacked the cops isn't critical in this case. But he did not "pull over to sleep it off". He passed out/fell asleep in the drive thru lane effectively shutting down a major part of the business. Wendy's did not call the cops because he was sleeping it off.
 

Bikeman315

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because being drunk his thinking is impaired.
Exactly why he was being arrested. Impaired thinking could have gotten him killed while he was walking home. Sorry I have no empathy for a drunk driver. And neither should anyone else who has been a victim of one.
 

HoosierDaddy

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No. I stand corrected. I was not familiar with some of the particulars.
I figured it was just one or both of us not understanding something.
 
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lateinthegame

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If we disarm the police we also have to disarm the public. So no it will not stop crime.


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I thought you got that I was being facetious. Maybe you really did and just wanted to be facetious too. There really does not need to be a heavily armed police force in England. People are more polite, if not snobbish, but they also obey the laws better and more respective of others. Sure they have their crime and only criminals have guns, save for the farmer with a shotgun. When I lived there, I ran across real IRA people there and when they found out I was Irish and I said that I did not like the Queen, they opened up and really told me how it was over there. I was kinda shocked about the bombings.
 
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lateinthegame

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Again, I am not taking a side on the outcome BUT I don't consider drunk driving a "little stupid thing". He drove there drunk. He appeared drunk, was appropriately given and failed a breathalyzer test. Drunk driving kills lots of people. I would be upset if the police didn't arrest him.
I HATE drunk drivers. They should be put away for life if they kill someone. Accidents to be sure happen, but drinking and driving is no accident. It is premeditated. I was in the back seat of my parents car when I was 12 and a head on collision at 60 mph killed my grandmother sitting next to me. I would not wish that sight on anyone. That memory will never be erased.
 

Sivi70980

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A major thing that was different in days of the past were kids being taught discipline and to listen to and obey police officers. If people (all races, genders, sexual orientations, and self identities included) would stop disobeying what the cops are telling them to do, we wouldn't be in this situation. I've been pulled over and received a BS ticket like I'm sure many of us have. That is NOT the time to argue with the cop, it's the time to take the BS ticket and later, argue it in court. What I hear about daily it seems is the same person getting pulled over and arguing and usually escalating it to much worse than it ever should be.

The removal of LEOs is begging for criminal activity where there normally would be none. In Seattle I guess there's an allowed community forming where LEOs aren't allowed? That's absolutely too generous of an allowance for the common people to decide. That's going to invite the worst of people from all over to be at their worst. The loss of life during and then when heads are finally pulled out of asses and the area is taken back over is going to be far greater than if we kept the status quo. Now I will say this info was brought to me by word of mouth so I have no actual idea whats going on. I'm very much against turning on or looking at any sort of "news" outlet.
 
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lateinthegame

lateinthegame

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Gentleman, this is Georgia. The state legislature wrote a law that allows police offices to make arrests for a number of misdemeanor charges. One is drunk driving. The officers were following protocol, period. This was not a situation that called for "officer friendly". This called for serve & protect. How do they know that Mr. Brooks didn't run over and killed someone a mile away? I think they handled themselves properly right up to the moment that Mr. Brooks resisted arrest, starting fighting with the officers, took one of their weapons, ran from and tried to shoot them. At that point all bets are off, the adrenaline is pumping full blast and we get the horrific result that occurred. No sorry, this was not on the officers, this was on Mr. Brooks.
I do have to agree with fighting with cops is not seen as being a nice person. I would suggest for a comparison to be a drunk driver in Germany and fight with cops there and see what happens. Just for comparison purposes only.
 

Sivi70980

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I thought you got that I was being facetious. Maybe you really did and just wanted to be facetious too. There really does not need to be a heavily armed police force in England. People are more polite, if not snobbish, but they also obey the laws better and more respective of others. Sure they have their crime and only criminals have guns, save for the farmer with a shotgun. When I lived there, I ran across real IRA people there and when they found out I was Irish and I said that I did not like the Queen, they opened up and really told me how it was over there. I was kinda shocked about the bombings.
Do kids get spanking there?
 

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