Datalog questions ~ what max boost and timing are you guys seeing?

[Aaron_ATX]

Been using the ford procal tune for over a year now with no other mods besides a mishi. intercooler. Recently the procal software was updated to allow for some dataloging, and after looking at mine I need something to compare it to.

93 octane being the only real constant I am interested in.

Stock tune, ford tune, whatever tune, what kind of max boost are you seeing and how much total timing to you expect?

On one pull tonight from a dead stop (60f outside temp) I am already getting 24-25 psi in second gear (top of second) and by 6k rpm total timing has dropped to 4 to 5 degrees advanced.

top of 3rd gear I am around 26 psi with only 1 - 3 degrees of timing left by 6300 rpm, (between shifts boost spikes to 30 yikes)

and partway thru 4th (let off at 5300 rpm) 26 psi and 1-2 degrees or even less of timing is all I am seeing.

This seems a little excessive for what the ford tune is designed to do. I am wondering if I am having a wastegate issue causing more boost which in turn is causing excessive amounts of timing to be pulled.

According to my data log the knock correction is ALWAYS at -1.0 with no movement ever. There is a switch in the ford tune to turn it on, meaning that it will allow for adjustments. It is currently off as was recommended by ford, and it appears that no adjustments are being made.


My concern is that all this boost and all that timing being pulled is hurting my overall power output. Not to mention 25-26 psi under load being questionable for a bone stock motor. And isn't the stock turbo a wee bit out of its efficiency range at those boost levels?

Anyone care to share some of the data they are seeing with basically a stock longblock and turbo, with tune or without?

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[apx632]

Based on what you've written I have a couple of questions.
1. What is your total amount of timing you are seeing? Your command timing + advanced corrections
2. What are your charge temps and IAT's?
I would think 26psi and a spike of 30psi on a shift is a bit excessive. But it also sounds like you are experiencing heat soak throughout a pull. Which I honestly can say I'm not surprised by given that you have a mishimoto IC.

I myself see 24-25psi with my tune, occassionally I'll get a spike of about 26psi. My boost tapers down to about 22psi by the time I shift which is around 5700-5800rpm. Running a stock turbo any higher than that is pointless. My ignition timing corrections are limited to +5.00 in my tune. And usually during a WOT pull even in the heat of summer it stays pegged at that number throughout. Then my tuner has my command timing slowly ramping in throughout the RPM band. I don't even see my full amount of timing throughout a pull. It is constantly being ramped in even up until I shift. I've never actually ran my car past 6100rpm on a pull. But on the last log I just pulled up my timing was STILL coming in when I shifted out of 3rd into 4th gear.

 

[Aaron_ATX]

The procal software only displays ignition timing as the overall advance the motor is getting, it does not specify base timing + corrections. Most of my logs seem to have max advance of around 48ish degrees, but of course that is only in very low non boost situations. The ecu certainly appears to always be pulling timing at WOT depending on RPM... max advance under WOT varies from 7 degrees in a lower gear down to 1 or less in 4th gear and beyond at WOT.


I was able to find a small amount of info on the web that seems to back that up in a stock configuration...

The procal also does not seem to have data on charge temps. Kinda crappy imo. As far as IAT's they were around 65-70f.

Since your boost is dropping as rpms increase I could understand the tune being able to add some timing. In my case boost seems to hold as long as I keep my foot down.


I think I will try turning on the OAR learning feature tomorrow and see how it reacts.

 

[xmadror]

Hey Aaron_ATX, sorry to hear you might have some trouble especially after reading/replying over at the [H] on the s550 4 banger love thread.

If it was me, I'd give the dealer a call and see what they have to say.

I'm not too knowledgeable about car tuning but spiking at 30 psi between shift would worry me! I haven't tried yet to log anything on my Ford racing tune but from my readings you should not get over 25 psi with 22-24 average.

I'm kinda wondering if the software is working right tough since I'd assume the car would throw an overboost CEL before 30psi ?!

 

[apx632]

The procal software only displays ignition timing as the overall advance the motor is getting, it does not specify base timing + corrections. Most of my logs seem to have max advance of around 48ish degrees, but of course that is only in very low non boost situations. The ecu certainly appears to always be pulling timing at WOT depending on RPM (higher the rpm the more it pulls, obviously I consider that normal based on the increasing piston speed) ~ max advance under WOT varies from 7 degrees in a lower gear down to 1 or less in 4th gear and beyond at WOT.


I was able to find a small amount of info on the web that seems to back that up in a stock configuration...

The procal also does not seem to have data on charge temps. Kinda crappy imo. As far as IAT's they were around 65-70f.

Since your boost is dropping as rpms increase I could understand the tune being able to add some timing. In my case boost seems to hold as long as I keep my foot down.


I think I will try turning on the OAR learning feature tomorrow and see how it reacts.

Still curious what you intake and charge temps are as well. I think you are heat soaking when doing a multi gear pull

 

[Aaron_ATX]

Hey Aaron_ATX, sorry to hear you might have some trouble especially after reading/replying over at the [H] on the s550 4 banger love thread.

If it was me, I'd give the dealer a call and see what they have to say.

I'm not too knowledgeable about car tuning but spiking at 30 psi between shift would worry me! I haven't tried yet to log anything on my Ford racing tune but from my readings you should not get over 25 psi with 22-24 average.

I'm kinda wondering if the software is working right tough since I'd assume the car would throw an overboost CEL before 30psi ?!

Well to be honest im not sure i am having a problem...now that i finally have access to some data i am trying to make sure the car is running correctly.

Id rather drink a gallon of gasoline than call a ford dealer to ask them. Supposedly Ford Performance may have the insight i need tho.

The boost spikes are only lasting .3 or less of a second according to my logs.

Im not hearing any detonation.....car still feels like it is pulling hard under WOT boost. But now i am second guessing myself lol. Car has always felt inconsistent however under medium high load while getting into boost at part throttle...

 

[xmadror]

Yeah I get it, I'd hate to have to make that call to a service rep too!

Car has always felt inconsistent however under medium high load while getting into boost at part throttle...

I'm still getting used to mine with 1200km and only ±300 with the ford tune (and 3.73 FD) but I can somewhat relate to that.

But it's more likely that I haven't figured out how to make the best of it yet.

 

[krack999]

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm seeing -0.5 to -1 degrees of "spark advance" at 4300 RPM and full throttle.

IAT's was in the 70's.

-Is this normal? What kind of spark advance are you seeing? I'm also seeing TP% at 35 during this acceleration. I'm glad Ford updated this software. This really allows us to see what is really going on with our cars.
-Is there ways to determine if the OAR is -1.0 from the Ford Procal data logger?

My car:
2017 Performance Package Ecoboost with MT-82 six speed.
-Ford Racing Power Pack only.
-Stock Plugs.
-Stock Intercooler
-Stock Exhaust
-93 octane from QT.
-8500 miles on the car.
-Yes, the tune has gone through the "learning" stage and has 2,000 miles on the tune.

It seems weird, but, there are times where the car really seems to have power. Then other times it just feels sluggish. Its disappointing and it feels like the car has a mind of its own instead of being consistent.

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