Coyote and the Voodoo

[corvettez06usa]

One thing that kinda strikes me as odd is how Ford introduced new engines for the Mustang at the mid to late point in the S197's life. The V6 and Coyote have only been out 4 years now, (2011 introduction, right?) and it seems way too young to axe them, but with the new platform out it also seems like hanging onto them for too long could be an issue, like the 4.6 (going off the expected 10 year cycle).

The GT350 is shaping up to me to be the greatest Mustang ever, dethroning my personal choice of the 2003-2004 SVT Cobra (if it performs well once out), and one thing I've been really into is the voodoo engine. In today's market it's really bad to have something totally dedicated to one car. So I personally feel the voodoo is going to find its way into the Mustang GT, I just am not sure it would be mid S550 or get saved for the inevitable platform refresh. Seems like the coyote is so awesome that they can buff it up over the S550s life, but waiting till then might make the voodoo too old. And then there is the pressure from GM and that god like engine getting put into Corvettes and Camaros. Thoughts?

Edit: thought I should make it clear I mean the Mustang GT and not the Ford GT, which I personally think is a bit depressing they are going with the 3.5 EB for a 400K car.

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[Youngmustang]

That's the only reason I would trade in my car. I need some of that voodoo in a gt. I can't afford a gt350 any time soon. I would like to hear some input on this.

 

[Spartan]

It will be interesting to see what Ford does in model year '17...

 

[Catfish]

And then there is the pressure from GM and that god like engine getting put into Corvettes and Camaros.

Godlike.......:lol::headbonk:

 

[Trackaholic]

I have no idea which way ford will go, but it is an interesting topic. The LT1 looks to be a great naturally aspirated V8 for GM over the next several years. It has a great low end, makes very good power, and can achieve excellent fuel economy as well.

The coyote has a better top end, but doesn't make as much power and gets worse economy. The Voodoo makes more power than both, but gets even worse FE. Can Ford manage to put that engine in a high volume product in this age of increasing regulation?

Maybe Ford can bore out the Coyote, but keep the lower redline, add direct injection, and maybe a seven speed transmission with a tall highway gear to get more power but manage FE.

Or, maybe Ford takes a different approach and eliminates the V8 in the standard GT and moves to an Ecoboost V6. Maybe they save the Voodoo or massaged Coyote for lower volume specialty versions.

I do think they will need to step up with something in order to compete more directly with the upcoming Camaro (at least from a numbers perspective - I don't like the looks of the Camaro, so I'm no interested in one no matter how fast it is).

-T

 

[corvettez06usa]

Maybe Ford can bore out the Coyote, but keep the lower redline, add direct injection, and maybe a seven speed transmission with a tall highway gear to get more power but manage FE.

I've done little research on the reliability of displacement on demand systems (shutting down cylinders) other than hearing they were a nightmare once upon a time, but I expected Ford to have at least considered it for the Coyote in S550 development. I do a lot of highway driving and having my GT cut down to 4 or even 2 cylinders would be pretty swanky.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

The Voodoo will never be a Coyote replacement based on the FE alone. Re-engineering it for lower rpm usage totally defeats the purpose too.

They'll update the Coyote.

 

[Niz55]

So would you guys rather have the gt350 over a 2014 gt500?

 

[P4RKER]

So would you guys rather have the gt350 over a 2014 gt500?

2 cars built for COMPLETELY different purposes. I would want both. One for the strip and one for the track.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I think ford will follow GMs lead and use the voodoo in the Boutique cars ala the LS7 in the Zo6 & Z28. The Coyote is a proven engine along the same vain as the Chevy LS engines which are still in the Camaro and base Corvette.

 

[Spartan]

The Voodoo will never be a Coyote replacement based on the FE alone. Re-engineering it for lower rpm usage totally defeats the purpose too.

They'll update the Coyote.

So you think we'll see an updated Coyote in the '17?

 

[Blk2015GT]

There's nothing wrong with the TT 3.5 Ecoboost. The Ford GT is putting out 600+hp on it. Plus turbocharged engines have more torque to them than the Coyote which had relatively low torque for the engine size and hp. Look at the current Ecoboost Mustang getting gobs of torque just with a tune; almost what the Coyote is putting out.

I dont think they'll put the Voodoo into the Mustang GT no. It's a hand built engine and too expensive for the Mustang; it will drive up the cost of the GT significantly from where it's at now; if they can mass produce the Voodoo to begin with. There is plenty of power left in the Coyote on the table.

I think you will also see a shift to a V6 Ecoboost as the years progress due to the new fuel economy restrictions to set in by 2025 requiring drastic increase of mpg over the fleet of cars and trucks each manufacturer makes. I wouldnt mind seeing a 550hp twin turbo 3.5 V6 personally; a bit de-tuned version of the Ford GT. They're using it in the Raptor as well coming out soon.

And I've still heard horror stories with active fuel management like lag in getting power and all types of issues. Thats the first mod many chevy folks do, pull out the intake manifold and the plate below is the active fuel management solenoids. I dont think that is the way Ford should go though. The 3.5L V6 Ecoboost is a WAY better way to go not needed to shut down cylinders but still make gobs of hp and torque.

 

[mustang_guy]

I have no idea which way ford will go, but it is an interesting topic. The LT1 looks to be a great naturally aspirated V8 for GM over the next several years. It has a great low end, makes very good power, and can achieve excellent fuel economy as well.

The coyote has a better top end, but doesn't make as much power and gets worse economy. The Voodoo makes more power than both, but gets even worse FE. Can Ford manage to put that engine in a high volume product in this age of increasing regulation?

Maybe Ford can bore out the Coyote, but keep the lower redline, add direct injection, and maybe a seven speed transmission with a tall highway gear to get more power but manage FE.

Or, maybe Ford takes a different approach and eliminates the V8 in the standard GT and moves to an Ecoboost V6. Maybe they save the Voodoo or massaged Coyote for lower volume specialty versions.

I do think they will need to step up with something in order to compete more directly with the upcoming Camaro (at least from a numbers perspective - I don't like the looks of the Camaro, so I'm no interested in one no matter how fast it is).

-T

Direct injection needs a lot of work before it will ever be worth a damn. The longer we can keep it out of our favorite cars the better. all the fuel economy savings seen at the pump go towards cleaning those valves every 15-20k which costs 700-1200 to clean. i see the mess every day work that is called DI. Ive posted about it around here before. There is a very real power loss from the build up that comes from DI. its not a small loss either.

 

[corvettez06usa]

Plus turbocharged engines have more torque to them than the Coyote which had relatively low torque for the engine size and hp. Look at the current Ecoboost Mustang getting gobs of torque just with a tune; almost what the Coyote is putting out.

I will not dispute the versatility of turbo charging at all, however, there's just something about a NA V8 that no amount of power can replace for me personally. As hard as the regulations are tightening around manufacturers, I think a V8 Mustang can still exist like getting out of it from a low volume stand point, getting it classified as a type of car that is considered outside the requirements, or just having the rest of the fleet average balance it out. 18-25 MPG out of the Coyote is pretty damn good for a 435/400 engine IMO, my daily mule does 19-27, 3.8L V6, and only makes 193/225.

I dont think they'll put the Voodoo into the Mustang GT no. It's a hand built engine and too expensive for the Mustang; it will drive up the cost of the GT significantly from where it's at now; if they can mass produce the Voodoo to begin with. There is plenty of power left in the Coyote on the table.

Very good point about the Voodoo, I never thought of or knew about the hand built component.

 

[Catfish]

I will not dispute the versatility of turbo charging at all, however, there's just something about a NA V8 that no amount of power can replace for me personally. As hard as the regulations are tightening around manufacturers, I think a V8 Mustang can still exist like getting out of it from a low volume stand point, getting it classified as a type of car that is considered outside the requirements, or just having the rest of the fleet average balance it out. 18-25 MPG out of the Coyote is pretty damn good for a 435/400 engine IMO, my daily mule does 19-27, 3.8L V6, and only makes 193/225.



Very good point about the Voodoo, I never thought of or knew about the hand built component.

The hand built Trinity 5.8 was a two year run. Crazy that so much R&D and resources go to such a short run.

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