COBB TUNE CLARIFICATION ------

[Kbrewer]

2015 ecoboost mustang, Arizona

Okay, so i know this has been talked about many times with no real answer.

Has anyone had first hand experience of Flashing their ECU back to stock and not being detected by the dealership? or does anyone have a legit source who can confirm this can not be detected if you "prep" the correct way before taking the car in.. For example, we have all heard of the " turn the car on and off 50+ times" does this work for sure?

Please dont tell me "if you're worried about a warranty you shouldn't tune the car" because im not, in a away.. I have the means to pay for the car if things go south, but I did get the extended warranty through the dealer unfortunately, so i would like to retain that warranty as long as i can without having to wait a few years to tune the car.

Real Advice is appreciated! :cheers:

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[Joe_Stang]

2015 ecoboost mustang, Arizona

Okay, so i know this has been talked about many times with no real answer.

Has anyone had first hand experience of Flashing their ECU back to stock and not being detected by the dealership? or does anyone have a legit source who can confirm this can not be detected if you "prep" the correct way before taking the car in.. For example, we have all heard of the " turn the car on and off 50+ times" does this work for sure?

Please dont tell me "if you're worried about a warranty you shouldn't tune the car" because im not, in a away.. I have the means to pay for the car if things go south, but I did get the extended warranty through the dealer unfortunately, so i would like to retain that warranty as long as i can without having to wait a few years to tune the car.

Real Advice is appreciated! :cheers:

I did that turning the car off and on about 100 times before I took my car to the dealer with a blown motor....didn't make a difference they could still see I was tuned. This is just my experience though.

 

[Kbrewer]

what did they say exactly ? i wonder if they just looked into it more because it was blown. what was your mod list?
if i just take it in for warranty work or a recall, i wonder if they would really look into it more than just noticing the start number is off.

 

[ypena02]

They can tell even if you flash your ECU back to stock if they look hard enough. If the dealer or Ford suspects the failure was due to tuning, they will look into the ECU and find out if the ecu was flashed.

 

[Joe_Stang]

They can tell even if you flash your ECU back to stock if they look hard enough. If the dealer or Ford suspects the failure was due to tuning, they will look into the ECU and find out if the ecu was flashed.

Yes exactly my car was returned 100% to stock and they still seen it was tuned. For recall work I doubt they would look for a tune. Some warranty work they might not check either unless it's like the turbo going up or engine issues. Some people can get away with having a tune others can't it's really dealer dependent it seems like.

Mod list at that time was:
Tune
Intercooler
Downpipe
Intake
Plugs

 

[paullyd210]

its super easy to tell if a car has been tuned or not on a premium car

 

[Kbrewer]

Yeah.. Thats kind of what im gathering.. my eco is my daily driver so i dont plan on going crazy with the mods and tune. i just want a little extra power.

I plan on a new intercooler.. then cobb ap with etune from Adam..

I would assume since im not going full bolt-on or tracking the car at all i should be relatively on the safe side for anything going wrong with the car right? just daily driving with a little extra HP and Torque when i need to pass.

 

[ypena02]

its super easy to tell if a car has been tuned or not on a premium car

Why does it make a difference if it's a premium?

 

[stang77]

I agree. It really depends on your dealer. Some are mod friendly and some are not. My dealer honored my warranty when I took it in for an overheating issue.

 

[paullyd210]

Why does it make a difference if it's a premium?

so you know that vehicle health feature on premiums?

well if you uninstall and go back to the stock tune and attempt to do a vehicle health report it'll give you an error stating it cant be done since there is less than 200 miles on the odometer

if your car has above 200 miles which is almost everyone that's an easy indication it has been flashed to stock recently UNLESS the dealer themselves did a PCM update within the past 200 miles


something i figured out on my own, I don't know if any dealers know about this but yeah it seems to me there is a secondary odometer within the ECU that counts miles since last calibration file and if it's on Premiums its probably on base models, I just put premiums because I've seen it proven first hand

 

[ypena02]

so you know that vehicle health feature on premiums?

well if you uninstall and go back to the stock tune and attempt to do a vehicle health report it'll give you an error stating it cant be done since there is less than 200 miles on the odometer

if your car has above 200 miles which is almost everyone that's an easy indication it has been flashed to stock recently UNLESS the dealer themselves did a PCM update within the past 200 miles


something i figured out on my own, I don't know if any dealers know about this but yeah it seems to me there is a secondary odometer within the ECU that counts miles since last calibration file and if it's on Premiums its probably on base models, I just put premiums because I've seen it proven first hand

This is interesting, thanks for the info. So does the vehicle health report functionality begin to work again after you drive 200 miles after flashing?

 

[Kbrewer]

so you know that vehicle health feature on premiums?

well if you uninstall and go back to the stock tune and attempt to do a vehicle health report it'll give you an error stating it cant be done since there is less than 200 miles on the odometer

if your car has above 200 miles which is almost everyone that's an easy indication it has been flashed to stock recently UNLESS the dealer themselves did a PCM update within the past 200 miles


something i figured out on my own, I don't know if any dealers know about this but yeah it seems to me there is a secondary odometer within the ECU that counts miles since last calibration file and if it's on Premiums its probably on base models, I just put premiums because I've seen it proven first hand

Damn that sucks ! I just had to get the Premium ! :frusty:
where were you able to see this "2nd OD" ?

 

[paullyd210]

This is interesting, thanks for the info. So does the vehicle health report functionality begin to work again after you drive 200 miles after flashing?

I would assume so I have not hit that mark yet

Damn that sucks ! I just had to get the Premium ! :frusty:
where were you able to see this "2nd OD" ?

I haven't seen a secondary OD anywhere, all I'm saying is something within the cars ECU or Sync System is counting miles since last calibration

 

[Juben]

I won't get into this at length because I'm typing on my cell phone, but when you flash or reflash (back to stock), it sets a P1000 code inside the ECU. That code tells Ford immediately that the ECU has been reset by an external source. That code can't be cleared through an OBDII reader or even seen by it. Ford can see the data with their computer though. Now, the code will go away, but you have to complete the Ford Drive Cycle (FDC) process to cycle the OBD processes and such. Once the Drive Cycling is complete, the code would go away. That's probably where the "200 miles" figure came from. The FDC is reset by a) using the Ford computer to cycle the processes or by b) driving the car various miles at various speeds and loads.

There's also a second variable to consider. The Ignition Counter. Ford can go into Mode 9 and view the Ignctr data and see how many key cycles (pressing on/off) the car has went through. That's why people say to cycle the ignition.

However, with the above said, even if you cycle the ignition counter up in total, you'd still have to complete the FDC for the P1000 code to be wiped out. Once the P1000 is gone and the Ignctr is up there, Ford would be less inclined to believe it would have been flashed.

The above two processes is confirmed in a Ford bulletin to dealerships and is what a SM I recently spoke with told me word for word. There would be a way to muddle the process for them enough to make it look like you hadn't fiddled with the ECU, but I'm not gonna put that out there for the general public (and Ford) to see.

Here's the thing, we mod our engines and it's a risk we take. If we blow them up, we should be responsible enough to cover the cost. If it was a failure because of something else attributed to Ford (like a water pump), then they should cover it.

 

[Bugasu]

I will add, beyond what [MENTION=13694]Juben[/MENTION] has said above, even if a dealership submits a warranty claim, if Ford themselves suspects something, they send an engineer out who can identify the signs of a flashed ECU pretty quick, and can even do some fancy bench ECU type things to determine the state of the ECU.

If Ford wants to know, they'll find out.

If you tune your vehicle, just expect to not have powertrain warranty, and prepare for the worse. Worst case you're denied, best case you're not.

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