CO2 tax in France

[Gregs24]

Reads like optimistic conjecture.

There's a distasteful smugness from the EV owner, seemingly ignorant or unconcerned with how the poorest motorists are burdened with additional taxation, which appears to be diverted to subsidize the EVs purchased by the wealthy.

Furthermore, not quite sure I understand the enjoyment some folk get at others' expense.
Celebrating the fact people won't be able to afford a prohibitively taxed new ICE car, or simply not permitted to buy a new ICE car at all.
It's, a bit puerile.

CARRY ON!

Well as I pointed out it has worked in Sweden so no point arguing with facts.

No idea what you are on about in the second paragraph. In France it applies to new car purchases so the 'poor' are not burdened with anything. The poor have never been able to afford new cars so what is new? Using tax to manipulate purchasing behaviour has been going on for years in all sorts of situations nothing new.

Are you suggesting I am being puerile for merely reporting what is out there in the public domain. Where did I 'celebrate' not being able to buy an ICE car? You know nothing about my preferences other than saying I am getting a PHEV (not to replace the Mustang). Does the fact I will own a PHEV make me the wrong sort of person for this forum ??

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[Gregs24]

It's also sad to see that the people who're so famous for erecting a guillotine and showing their king who's the boss - an event they still take pride in today - are now falling for such blatant and shameless manipulation techniques. You want to impose a new tax. You know the people won't like it. So what do you do? Propose a preposterously inflated one, knowing full well that it will generate protests, then pretend to relent and reduce it to the originally intended amount. Now you've got what you wanted in the first place, while the people are happy about having 'defeated' you and celebrate the 'success' of their protests. Brilliant.
I wish the French erected gallows in front of the Elysee palace and the Assemblee Nationale, brought Macron and all the ministers out of the buildings, and threatened to hang them all unless the very idea of a new tax is removed from any future plans. Actually, reduce some of the existing taxes while we're at it.
But sadly we won't see anything like this anymore. We've become too used to being bullied and manipulated by our rulers.

You are assuming that the majority in France don't agree with this new taxation? The French are pretty good at protesting about stuff so I wouldn't worry about them being bullied !

 

[Gregs24]

A cull is obviously a stupid idea, but the basic premise that there are too many of us isn't. Since I was born, fifty something years ago, there are now more than twice as many of us wandering about on the planet as there were then. So a lot of extra everything is needed to support us all. We can't hope to just solar panel and wind farm our way out of this one. The numbers have to be addressed. It's taken us several decades to get into this mess and it will take us several decades to get out of it. To fix it we need (I'm getting all 2020 here) to look at our "R" number. If every couple on the planet only has 2 kids each, then we will have an "R" number of 0 and population stability. Below that the population will fall, above, it will rise. I'm not going to suggest how we tackle this - that's a job for our glorious leaders, but tackle it...eventually, we're going to have to.

China tried it and even they gave up, so no chance of anybody else managing it. Controlling breeding is unlikely to ever be a manifesto feature !

What will actually happen is that poorer nations will be limited by food and this will restrict population growth. This is not new thinking, it was being postulated 200+ years ago. Improvements in agricultural efficiency will and have delayed this, but not stop it. It will 'tackle' itself in that respect !

 

[Bullitt66]

China tried it and even they gave up, so no chance of anybody else managing it.

Taxing kids instead of incentivising breeding like rabbits...

If it didn’t work just increase the dose. More tax, less benefits...

a bit harder to do this in a democracy...

 

[Vlad Soare]

Well as I pointed out it has worked in Sweden so no point arguing with facts.

To be fair, Sweden isn't exactly a democracy model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H
If the opinion of 83% of the population doesn't mean anything in a country that calls itself democratic, I don't know what does.

 

[Vlad Soare]

You are assuming that the majority in France don't agree with this new taxation? The French are pretty good at protesting about stuff so I wouldn't worry about them being bullied !

I don't know what the majority wants in this particular case. All I'm saying is that when they protest against something, they never finish it like their ancestors used to. They just content themselves with meaningless compromises, which the government pretends to make as a result of the protests but in reality were most probably part of the plan all along.
I'm not criticizing the French in particular, because we aren't any better either. European democracies are a joke - we just get to elect our dictators, nothing more.

 

[Gregs24]

To be fair, Sweden isn't exactly a democracy model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H
If the opinion of 83% of the population doesn't mean anything in a country that calls itself democratic, I don't know what does.

In 1963 !

I was referring to the tax changes influencing car buying in the last two year. A huge swing to EV's there brought about by carrot and stick.

 

[Vlad Soare]

While I have nothing against the carrot, in my opinion the stick has no place in a democracy.

 

[Gregs24]

While I have nothing against the carrot, in my opinion the stick has no place in a democracy.

Carrot and stick are just degrees of the same thing around a neutral point. A small stick v a big stick is a bit more carroty (if that is a word!) You still need a stick for those that will not comply with the rule of law - but that is not really related to car taxation

 

[Shadow277]

????

Humans exhale Carbon Dioxide. So France is taxing people to breath.

 

[Supersolo]

China tried it and even they gave up, so no chance of anybody else managing it. Controlling breeding is unlikely to ever be a manifesto feature !

What will actually happen is that poorer nations will be limited by food and this will restrict population growth. This is not new thinking, it was being postulated 200+ years ago. Improvements in agricultural efficiency will and have delayed this, but not stop it. It will 'tackle' itself in that respect !

You're very wrong & hopelessly out of date there. About 200yrs out of date!
Global population control has been demonstrated to be intrinsically linked to the equality of education & rights of Women.

Well as I pointed out it has worked in Sweden so no point arguing with facts.

No idea what you are on about in the second paragraph. In France it applies to new car purchases so the 'poor' are not burdened with anything. The poor have never been able to afford new cars so what is new? Using tax to manipulate purchasing behaviour has been going on for years in all sorts of situations nothing new.

Are you suggesting I am being puerile for merely reporting what is out there in the public domain. Where did I 'celebrate' not being able to buy an ICE car? You know nothing about my preferences other than saying I am getting a PHEV (not to replace the Mustang). Does the fact I will own a PHEV make me the wrong sort of person for this forum ??

As I posted earlier, it's a new car tax, for France.

You posted your thread in the United Kingdom forum.

So what exactly is your purpose for posting French vehicular taxation, on the U.K. forum?
To do what?
To bicker with the internet?

I'm suggesting you're bored & so you've decided to press a well exposed button in the Mustang community, just to stir up trouble.
I'm not even bothered why, you seem to rub-up a few on here, the wrong way & you seem to seek to do so.

Don't you have a milk float to ponce about in, rather than posting EV fan-boi clap-trap on a non-region related, V8 ICE forum?
Oh! It's on charge...


Class!

 

[sotek2345]

China tried it and even they gave up, so no chance of anybody else managing it. Controlling breeding is unlikely to ever be a manifesto feature !

What will actually happen is that poorer nations will be limited by food and this will restrict population growth. This is not new thinking, it was being postulated 200+ years ago. Improvements in agricultural efficiency will and have delayed this, but not stop it. It will 'tackle' itself in that respect !

It is actually exactly the opposite. Higher education and standard of living (especially for women) decreases birth rates. Many nations actually already have a negative population growth except for immigration.

https://www.thoughtco.com/negative-population-growth-1435471

 

[raptor17GT]

A cull is obviously a stupid idea, but the basic premise that there are too many of us isn't. Since I was born, fifty something years ago, there are now more than twice as many of us wandering about on the planet as there were then. So a lot of extra everything is needed to support us all. We can't hope to just solar panel and wind farm our way out of this one. The numbers have to be addressed. It's taken us several decades to get into this mess and it will take us several decades to get out of it. To fix it we need (I'm getting all 2020 here) to look at our "R" number. If every couple on the planet only has 2 kids each, then we will have an "R" number of 0 and population stability. Below that the population will fall, above, it will rise. I'm not going to suggest how we tackle this - that's a job for our glorious leaders, but tackle it...eventually, we're going to have to.

Same age as me, near enough. (we'll ignore muscle cars for this lol but why be on planet earth if not to live the life while here)
If every couple has 2 kids, and every kid couples up with someone elses kid and they have 2 kids and they have overlaps in life span...
Haven't done the maths on that above and while we can all do better with our carbon footprint on earth and the removal of stupid packaging on damn near everything, the simple facts are that human population growth is out of control. This is despite our seemingly best efforts to reduce it by acts of stupidity or plain meanness! More humans mean more consumption and that of course means more and bigger problems.

How to return to a more liveable balance, difficult choices need made but ignoring the number of humans on the planet is missing a huge chunk of the problem and indeed missing the point. To say Climate Change is caused by Humans then ignore the population of humans while culling other species for having too many is bonkers! Nature finds a balance except us humans came along and broke that balance.

Taxing people more to provide a better environment is missing the point when the people hit most with the charges are the ones that can least afford it.

While I have nothing against the carrot, in my opinion the stick has no place in a democracy.

in a democracy you are allowed that opinion even when you are wrong.

China tried it and even they gave up, so no chance of anybody else managing it. Controlling breeding is unlikely to ever be a manifesto feature !

What will actually happen is that poorer nations will be limited by food and this will restrict population growth. This is not new thinking, it was being postulated 200+ years ago. Improvements in agricultural efficiency will and have delayed this, but not stop it. It will 'tackle' itself in that respect !

China stopped it because too many girls were being killed at birth (not as valuable as boys) and then decades later lo and behold there's not enough women to continue the Chinese Race as too many got killed as babies. Yeah, the law of intended consequences bit hard on that one. I think a study weirdly proved that the 1 couple 1 child rule didn't actually change the population growth by enough but my brain is tired and I haven't checked that.

Poorer nations get help from richer nations and thus the death rate reduces and population goes up. To deny the poorer nations help is to in reality starve them and that's back to the ideal of a cull which we both agree isn't a vote winner nor an option. Think Live Aid.

Edit: live aid not band aid lol

 

[WD Pro]

WD

 

[Gregs24]

You're very wrong & hopelessly out of date there. About 200yrs out of date!
Global population control has been demonstrated to be intrinsically linked to the equality of education & rights of Women.



As I posted earlier, it's a new car tax, for France.

You posted your thread in the United Kingdom forum.

So what exactly is your purpose for posting French vehicular taxation, on the U.K. forum?
To do what?
To bicker with the internet?

I'm suggesting you're bored & so you've decided to press a well exposed button in the Mustang community, just to stir up trouble.
I'm not even bothered why, you seem to rub-up a few on here, the wrong way & you seem to seek to do so.

Don't you have a milk float to ponce about in, rather than posting EV fan-boi clap-trap on a non-region related, V8 ICE forum?
Oh! It's on charge...


Class!

I posted originally for the same reason several car mags have written on the subject - because it was interesting and relevant to what is happening in the car industry / Europe.

If you don't like the subject there is nobody forcing you to respond.

I embrace the V8 but am aware enough to realise it's life is probably limited and that there are alternatives out there we will need to look at. If you are so closed to any discussion on the subject then simply don't bother to respond.

Does it not interest you what is happening in France and the rest of the world relating to cars and how they are developing. To discuss in a constructive way what is likely to happen to those cars over the next 5, 10, 20+ years.

I'm not an EV fan-boi - I drive a Mustang V8 for heaven sake.

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