CO2 tax in France

[Vlad Soare]

We've been hearing this ("batteries will overcome all the current issues in the next ten years") for the past twenty years, if not more. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
We'll see.

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[Gregs24]

People who rejoice in the idea of an electric future starting with 2030 seem to imagine a world full of Teslas and Taycans. Not a chance. Those are toys for a handful of millionaires. Most people will have to make do with stupid shopping carts like the Zoe & Co. The electric future doesn't look nice. It looks grey, boring, joyless. People just moving from A to B efficiently, in government-approved econoboxes. Sad.
The car will go the way of the airplane. Flying used to be a pleasant, glamorous thing you looked forward to. Now it's just efficient transportation for the masses - load cattle into a cargo box and move it fast and safely, and preferably cheaply, from A and B.
Is it coming? Perhaps. Can I do anything about it? Probably not. But I'm not looking forward to it. It's not going to be nice.

That is already what most peoples world is now. The Ford Fiesta is the best selling car in the UK and the Zoe is a worthy alternative to that. Most people just want a car to start, stop, be warm dry and comfortable and require no effort to drive.

I know Mustang owners are not like that but we are very much in the minority.

Many people are unaware of what car / model they drive never mind what the engine capacity is. It is irrelevant to them as long as they reach their destination.

 

[Gregs24]

We've been hearing this ("batteries will overcome all the current issues in the next ten years") for the past twenty years, if not more. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
We'll see.

You are ignoring the progress we have seen. 300 mile range is now happening and 200 mile range is commonplace which is all most people need - hence the reason EV's are catching on. Are all those Swedes getting stranded in the middle of nowhere and freezing to death ? No need to hold your breath it is happening.

If you don't like EV's that is OK (although you will need to get over it in the future) but for most people EV's already do all they need.

For me personally our PHEV is ideal as it runs on electricity locally for most of our journeys and then has the ICE for longer journeys. I even have photovoltaic panels to charge it for largely free. Perfect.

 

[Vlad Soare]

That is already what most peoples world is now. The Ford Fiesta is the best selling car in the UK and the Zoe is a worthy alternative to that. Most people just want a car to start, stop, be warm dry and comfortable and require no effort to drive.

I know Mustang owners are not like that but we are very much in the minority.

Many people are unaware of what car / model they drive never mind what the engine capacity is. It is irrelevant to them as long as they reach their destination.

Indeed. But that doesn't mean it should make me happy.
You seem to enjoy the direction the world is going and to be looking forward to a time when ICEs will be banned.
I would be happier if minorities like us were allowed to exist and to live in their own little niche, instead of being forced to swallow the official pill and to conform to the grey life of the masses whether they like it or not, like your government wants.
Luckily Romania isn't in danger yet, but we know that such diseases tend to cross borders easily. Before you know it the madness will spread all across the EU, and there will come a time when small countries will have no other option but to comply one way or the other.

 

[Gregs24]

Indeed. But that doesn't mean it should make me happy.
You seem to enjoy the direction the world is going and to be looking forward to a time when ICEs will be banned.
I would be happier if minorities like us were allowed to exist and to live in their own little niche, instead of being forced to swallow the official pill and to conform to the grey life of the masses whether they like it or not, like your government wants.
Luckily Romania isn't in danger yet, but we know that such diseases tend to cross borders easily. Before you know it the madness will spread all across the EU, and there will come a time when small countries will have no other option but to comply one way or the other.

I have expressed no opinion about my personal position other than saying the PHEV is perfect for us as an everyday vehicle. There will always be performance cars for us to drive. In 200 years everybody will have forgotten ICE's, just like they hadn't even thought of them 150 years ago.

 

[Bullitt66]

My beef with this is that govt policy doesn’t necessarily follow natural or market led product ’evolution’.
Policy is made by govt listening to so called ‘experts’ - who have different opinions - and dare I say influenced by bungs (or let’s politely say those who donate to the party).

back in the 90s Rover spanked huge sums researching lean burn petrol technology only for the EU to decide CO emissions were THE problem and diesel was the future. Overnight Diesels became incentivised and petrol became the naughty school kid. This left Rover without competitive diesel powertrains and no cash left with which to develop one. This was probably one of the many reasons for their demise.

The other manufacturers response was to invest heavily in diesels and transform them from the horrific agricultural machines of the 80s to BMWs current and amazing 3.0d torque monsters.

until the govt realised that the soot particulates from diesels are actually worse for everyone than CO emissions. So they decide to ban ICE altogether and incentivise EV.

you can see the same thinking with UK govt policy on COVID, taking the wrong advice at the wrong time and being too proud to admit mistakes and refresh the policy.

Anyway to get off my soap box we’ve got 10 years of ICE left so I’m going to enjoy it while I can!

 

[Vlad Soare]

Anyway to get off my soap box we’ve got 10 years of ICE left so I’m going to enjoy it while I can!

Or you can vote Boris out of the office.

 

[Gregs24]

back in the 90s Rover spanked huge sums researching lean burn petrol technology only for the EU to decide CO emissions were THE problem and diesel was the future. Overnight Diesels became incentivised and petrol became the naughty school kid. This left Rover without competitive diesel powertrains and no cash left with which to develop one. This was probably one of the many reasons for their demise.

In the 90's Rover were the first to introduce a DI diesel in the UK in collaboration with Perkins. It was a bit (no a lot) of a nail and so they then just used Peugeot diesel engines that were the best at the time. Rover never had any cash. Honda did fine without any diesel engines so I don't think Rover's demise had much to do with it.

 

[Gregs24]

Or you can vote Boris out of the office.

...and bring the ICE ban forward !

 

[Shadow277]

Taxing people to breath too? What a country.

 

[Gregs24]

Taxing people to breath too? What a country.

????

 

[Enoch]

Ford USA can’t even retaliate by asking the US government to put a massive levy on French cars. The Americans know that French cars are crap and wouldn’t buy one at any price

 

[Vlad Soare]

It's also sad to see that the people who're so famous for erecting a guillotine and showing their king who's the boss - an event they still take pride in today - are now falling for such blatant and shameless manipulation techniques. You want to impose a new tax. You know the people won't like it. So what do you do? Propose a preposterously inflated one, knowing full well that it will generate protests, then pretend to relent and reduce it to the originally intended amount. Now you've got what you wanted in the first place, while the people are happy about having 'defeated' you and celebrate the 'success' of their protests. Brilliant.
I wish the French erected gallows in front of the Elysee palace and the Assemblee Nationale, brought Macron and all the ministers out of the buildings, and threatened to hang them all unless the very idea of a new tax is removed from any future plans. Actually, reduce some of the existing taxes while we're at it.
But sadly we won't see anything like this anymore. We've become too used to being bullied and manipulated by our rulers.

 

[Supersolo]

Taxing the shit out of ICE cars and subsidising EV's will work and does work.

Reads like optimistic conjecture.

There's a distasteful smugness from the EV owner, seemingly ignorant or unconcerned with how the poorest motorists are burdened with additional taxation, which appears to be diverted to subsidize the EVs purchased by the wealthy.

Furthermore, not quite sure I understand the enjoyment some folk get at others' expense.
Celebrating the fact people won't be able to afford a prohibitively taxed new ICE car, or simply not permitted to buy a new ICE car at all.
It's, a bit puerile.

CARRY ON!

 

[Count Drunkula]

A cull, yeah as you say that's not exactly free of controversy but all the environmentalists keep saying that human actions are killing the planet and we need to made changes now. Obvious answer is we need fewer humans, after all 3 billion people will use far less resources than 7.2 billion. Strange thing is, environmentalists don't seem to mention this anywhere in their manifestos. Maybe they want 8 billion cave dwellers

A cull is obviously a stupid idea, but the basic premise that there are too many of us isn't. Since I was born, fifty something years ago, there are now more than twice as many of us wandering about on the planet as there were then. So a lot of extra everything is needed to support us all. We can't hope to just solar panel and wind farm our way out of this one. The numbers have to be addressed. It's taken us several decades to get into this mess and it will take us several decades to get out of it. To fix it we need (I'm getting all 2020 here) to look at our "R" number. If every couple on the planet only has 2 kids each, then we will have an "R" number of 0 and population stability. Below that the population will fall, above, it will rise. I'm not going to suggest how we tackle this - that's a job for our glorious leaders, but tackle it...eventually, we're going to have to.

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