Car&Driver: 2019 GT350 vs. 2020 Supra

Discussion in 'Shelby GT350 Mustang' started by Mspeedster, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. Mspeedster

    Mspeedster Well-Known Member

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    #1 Mspeedster, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2019
    Interesting article for me, as I'm a fan of the '90s Supra MKIV and like the new MKV (despite it being a BMW).

    It's a close one, but the GT350 wins yet another comparison test. :like:

    https://www.caranddriver.com/review...yota-supra-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

    [​IMG]



    2020 Toyota GR Supra vs. 2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350: Which Is the Better Driver's Machine?

    Vastly different yet similarly capable, one of these rear-drive sports coupes begs to be driven harder than the other.

    By SCOTT OLDHAM
    AUG 23, 2019



    supra-vs-gt350-highs-lows-1566558403-jpg.jpg


    This isn't just a comparison test between a pair of high-performance cars. This is a fight between the 2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and the 2020 Toyota GR Supra. It's a battle between big and small, displacement versus refinement, three pedals versus two paddle-shifters, old school versus new. America versus Japan.

    It's a fight that has been in the works for more than 50 years. Carroll Shelby's first Mustang GT350 was built in 1965, constructed in a small industrial building in Venice, California. That model was long gone by the time the first Toyota Supra hit the street in the late 1970s, and it was already a valuable classic when the fourth-gen Supra, with its 2JZ twin-turbo inline-six, started slaying Ferraris in 1993. Now, with the return of the Supra for 2020—albeit with more than a little help from BMW—these two legends are finally rolling off assembly lines at the same time.


    The Matchup

    Both of these cars have engines in front driving the rear wheels, and that's about the extent of their mechanical likeness. Just like its ancestor, the much larger and heavier Shelby is all V-8 thunder and manual gear selection. Code-named Voodoo, its V-8's 5.2 liters of double-overhead-cam greatness is famous for its flat-plane crank and 8250 rpm redline. It breathes air atmospherically, makes 526 hp, and sounds like the demon love child of an American muscle car and a Japanese superbike. Every GT350 gets a six-speed manual gearbox. Our test car cost $64,860.

    For 2019, Ford has dialed up the GT350's chassis, basically creating a GT350R with a back seat. To maximize grip, its standard magnetorheological dampers have been recalibrated, and its front springs are 10 percent stiffer to reduce dive under braking. Its rear springs are now six-percent softer, and there's a stiffer anti-roll bar than before. Ultra-grippy Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires have replaced the previous Pilot Super Sports. Our test car also was equipped with the optional Handling Package, which includes camber plates atop its front struts, and our test car arrived looking as if there was more negative camber dialed in than on Joey Logano's NASCAR Ford Mustang at Watkins Glen.

    Created in partnership with BMW, Toyota's newest Supra is for the first time a two-seater. It's also a mechanical doppelganger for the equally fresh BMW Z4. Like its most desirable forebearer, the Supra is packing a boosted inline-six, although this time there's one turbocharger instead of two. BMW's 3.0-liter is rated at 335 horsepower, which makes this the most powerful unmodified Supra ever. An eight-speed automatic is the only transmission offered. Our Launch Edition model rode on a set of 19-inch Michelin Pilot Super Sports, and the bottom line on the sticker read $57,375.


    On the Road

    With the Toyota packing 191 fewer ponies than the Shelby, and the Mustang wearing larger and stickier rubber, you might imagine that this would be a beatdown. But dig a little deeper into the specs, and you'll see that the Supra weighs 446 pounds less than the 3821-pound Mustang and its wheelbase is nearly 10 inches shorter. The Supra, which is about the size of a Porsche Cayman, is also more powerful than Toyota is telling us. Or is it BMW?

    We recently strapped a Supra to a chassis dyno where it registered 339 horsepower and 427 lb-ft of torque at the wheels, which means the engine is considerably stronger than its official “at the crank” ratings. It also means it's packing more torque than the Mustang's V-8, which is rated at 429 lb-ft before any power is lost turning its transmission and rear axle. And that shove hits down low, at just 1600 rpm, which explodes the Supra off the line and out of tight corners. The straight six redlines at 6500 rpm but pulls strongly to its 7000-rpm fuel cutoff, and its quick shifting eight-speed will hold gears in manual mode.

    At the test track the Supra hit 60 mph in just 3.9 seconds, spanking the Mustang by three-tenths. Once the Ford's big V-8 finds its power curve at the top of its tach, however, the Mustang does come on strong, beating the Toyota to 100 mph by half a second and to 140 mph by 3.6 seconds. Both cars finished the quarter mile in 12.5 seconds, which makes them the quickest Supra and GT350 we've ever tested. The big-winged twin-turbo Supras of the 1990s, which also weighed about 3400 pounds, ran the quarter in 13.1 seconds, while the original 306 hp GT350 was a mid-14–second car.

    On twisty two-lane roads, the Toyota's traction-control system gets quite a workout, although it's tuned perfectly and keeps the Supra charging forward. By contrast it's easy to lug the Mustang's 5.2 out of slow second-gear corners. It takes a beat or two for the V-8 to climb back over 4500 rpm and start making power, which allows the Supra to pull away slightly down short straights. On the upside, the Shelby's lofty power curve keeps it from being a handful. This isn't a tail-happy drift machine eager to spit you off into a ditch; it's easy to drive quickly. The V-8 also sounds like it should without the manufactured crackles and pops you get from the Supra's six. Unfortunately, the Voodoo is so buzzy at more than 6000 rpm that the Shelby's pedals tingle under the driver's feet, and its shifter rattles like a baby's toy. It's a visceral experience.

    We flogged both these cars hard for more than 600 miles of driving in the Sequoia National Forest. This exercise did no favors to the fuel economy calculations reflected in the accompanying specification charts, but it did wind up giving us a solid baseline for comparing the cars' relative characters. The Supra is more tossable and better balanced than the burly Mustang, but the skittish nature of its suspension over bumps and the lack of feedback in its steering and brake pedal don't build confidence. Not right away. The Supra feels nervous, at first, but soon you learn the grip is there, and the Toyota can keep the same pace as the Shelby. In the real world both cars can be driven hard for hours nose to tail at the edge of their limits. The Mustang's wider stance, firmer suspension, and tackier tires did add up to slightly superior numbers at the test track where both cars generated more than 1.00 g of grip on the skidpad.


    The Inside View

    It turns out it's easy to make a Shelby GT350 invisible. Just park it next to a 2020 Toyota Supra. Onlookers walk right past the Shelby like it's a beige Camry and ask if they can take a picture of the Toyota. Especially folks younger than 40. It isn't exactly beautiful, and parts just look wrong from some angles, but there's no denying the dramatic draw of the Supra's shape.

    Inside, its tachometer is front and center with its redline at 12 o'clock, where it should be. Aside from its gauges the Toyota's cabin is mostly BMW, with modernistic design and impeccable construction. It also feels tight and has mail-slot sightlines, but the Supra's cabin lives up to its steep price point, as does the rest of the machine. Some may think $57,400 is too much for a Toyota, but they won't after they drive it.

    By comparison the Mustang's interior is pleasingly spacious. It's also a bit retro with large round dials and a levered parking brake, but it couldn't be more ergonomically simple. Pedal spacing is perfect, and its firm brake pedal is reassuring.


    The Bottom Line

    Big or small, displacement or refinement, three pedals or two, old school or new? Pick your poison. Eeny meeny miney mo. It's that close.

    With its small back seat and larger trunk, the Mustang is certainly the more practical of these two factory hot rods, but the more refined Toyota is more comfortable for daily use. It rides better than the Ford, it's considerably quieter on the highway, and its seats aren't as aggressively bolstered. Although they get a bit squishy when you're tossing the Supra from corner to corner, the Toyota's buckets are preferably cushy for weekend road trips. The Supra also gets better fuel economy than the Shelby, and its highway cruising range is far superior. As we learned with our long-term GT350, the Mustang's 16-gallon tank is good for only about 250 miles.

    But we don't care. As impressed as we are with the fifth-generation Supra, it's the old school, three-pedal Mustang, with its race-car–like turn-in and V-8 thunder, that speaks to its driver the loudest, both literally and figuratively. Driven back to back, the Ford is simply too engaging to not win this shootout. But it wins it by a nose.

    2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-and-2020-toyota-supra-comparison-102-1566409440-jpg.jpg
     
  2. WildHorse

    WildHorse N/A or GO HOME

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    yikes...that supra is one ugly mofo.
     
  3. Dave2013M3

    Dave2013M3 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why the GT350s acceleration numbers aren't any better. The car is just a tad quicker than a 2018 Mustang GT and darn near what a E92 M3 runs. The last test of a manual E92 M3 was a 2012 model and Car and Driver ran 0-60 in 4.3, 1/4mile in [email protected] A DCT car ran 0-60 in 3.9 and the quarter mile in 12.4 @115mph. Granted the E92 is just 200lbs lighter but the GT350 has over 100hp more than a E92, what gives? Is it the way the car is geared?

    The Supra is obviously underrated, BMW turbocharged powerplants are always underrated. The same engine in the Z4 is 382hp. I agree with the above post though..the Supra is hideous.
     
  4. lightrules

    lightrules Well-Known Member

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    with all the hype and frenzy over this car, I thought I was the only one who thought this thing was so ugly. the back looks like an alien butt. overall looks like a pumped up Miata. it's so ugly I can't believe I'm angry about it.
     
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  5. svassh

    svassh Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up. Hard to go wrong with either.
     
  6. VRYALT3R3D

    VRYALT3R3D Well-Known Member

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    The Supra looks so underwhelming in person.
     
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  7. Sixx

    Sixx Member

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    Another recent test from C&D got better numbers. 119 trap speed is no joke.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a27445671/2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-by-the-numbers/

    Prior to owning my Shelby, I had a M2 DCT. The early magazine test for those had some really fast times.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15101089/2016-bmw-m2-automatic-test-review/

    Based on that test the M2 was a 12.5 second car. After owning both, they are not that close. The Shelby is considerably faster. Manufacturers have a history of sending ringers into tests (the original Pontiac GTO vs Ferrari comes to mind). With turbo cars it is easy to do.
     
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  8. Scoobs

    Scoobs Well-Known Member

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    I liked their comment about lugging the engine out of slow second gear corners? I don’t think they understand the engine in the GT350. Car and Driver used to be a good magazine but last couple of years I just shake my head reading it.
     
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  9. IronSooner

    IronSooner Well-Known Member

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    #9 IronSooner, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
    Exactly. This is the part that got me. Came back to post this, see you already did.
    Do they not know how to drive this car? If they did, I’m sure the Shelby would win by more than just a nose. Pick a line, blip her down into first, listen to that oh so sweet pop and crackle as she engine brakes, then throttle out, keeping her in the power band and wondering how the Ford engineers made this 3400 lb beast so light on her toes!

    Anyway, a good write up. I guess I could see how the younger crowd would prefer the Supra, and as an older guy, I used to think Supras were pretty cool even before fast and the furious and all the Japanese modding was the rage. Plus, it’s been a while since there was a new one. But, I agree with you guys and the article...it’s really not a looker, whereas the Shelby is beautiful from all angles; truly sexy and mean at the same time. As the article states, I could see how older guys would prefer the raw-ness and classic name and racing heritage that is Shelby.

    Glad the American car won. Because it’s better. :)
     
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  10. DCShelby

    DCShelby Well-Known Member

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    If you are a tall big guy, you are not fitting into the Supra. I also agree they did not seem to know how to shift to keep the 350 in the power band. In fact many reviewers do the same thing in videos.
     
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  11. galaxy

    galaxy Well-Known Member

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    There’s another item that has become more and more important to me, and it came up in this one as well...not much of anything can touch the spirit and driving experience of the 350 these days. That’s its holy grail. I’m OK with their published “numbers”.
     
  12. Timeless

    Timeless Well-Known Member

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  13. barron64

    barron64 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else notice the resemblance between the Supra and an old Subaru B9 Tribeca? F0F4F423-4901-492F-BDE0-67ACD787A385.png
     
  14. Voodoo Velocity

    Voodoo Velocity Well-Known Member

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    #14 Voodoo Velocity, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
    The Shelby styling, though mostly a Mustang, took the styling of the '69-70 Mustang fastback and brought it into modern proportions and stance with an aggressive, even mean character.
    The Supra is trying to invent something new, which is more risky, and IMHO a failure of what it is trying to be, It is a committee of stylng elements that do not work together. Sort of a wildebeest of all modern styling elements. The Shelby simply is a beast, pure and purposeful.

    This comparo reads to me of old school vs new school. The Supra is all things modern from styling to tech, The Shelby, while leveraging today's engineering capabilities, remains raw, visceral and capable. The Shelby demands respect. It will permit you to manage it. It can also kill you. It has a great balance of thrill and terror that makes me giggle when I drive it, and after I park it in the garage it feels great to be alive (and thankful).
     
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  15. galaxy

    galaxy Well-Known Member

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    That. Was. Perfect!
     
  16. Dave2013M3

    Dave2013M3 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I totally agreed, 119 mph is nothing to sneeze at. However, for 526hp I think this car should easily be a 121+mph. The M2 is extremely quick to 100mph after that they run out of steam. Even the E92 M3 was almost 5 seconds quicker to 150mph vs. the M2. The 2012 M3 that C&D tested did 0-150mph in 23.7 seconds vs. over 28 seconds for the M2. Once again though the GT350 is only 1.7 seconds faster to 150mph, which at that speed is a lot of distance but to the point in which the car is over 100hp stronger.

    The GT350 is the only car other than a new Porsche 992S that I would consider new over my E92 which I have owned since new from 2013.

    Thanks..

    Dave
     
  17. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Well-Known Member

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    Tell me about it. 6’6” and 275lbs means I don’t have many cars I can fit in with a helmet. Even my Shelby requires a suboptimal seat recline so my head is out of the ceiling.
     
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  18. dpAtlanta

    dpAtlanta Well-Known Member

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    I just picked up my 2019 GT350 3 days ago... I was cleaning the inside back glass (not easy if over 25 yrs old) and I actually sat down in the back seat once finished... my head hit the back glass and I'm only 5'8" - Clean off head print,
    How would someone larger than me utilize the back seat? It might as well be an "R" and fold the rear seats down, or have a cardboard sign saying if you are taller than this, you can not ride in the back!
    I didn't buy it for transporting more than 2 people, so I'm not complaining... just an observation.
     
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  19. Scoobs

    Scoobs Well-Known Member

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    Ya i have to get one of these to clean the back window

    https://www.amazon.com/AutoEC-Windshield-Extendable-Washable-Reusable/dp/B07MY3543X/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=AutoEC+Extendable+Handle+Window+Cleaner+Brush+Kit,&qid=1566695344&s=gateway&sr=8-5 Screen Shot 2019-08-24 at 9.10.08 PM.png
     
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  20. REDLINE

    REDLINE Well-Known Member

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    I might be in the minority, but I absolutely love the concept the Supra was based off. The Toyota FT-1. Too bad it got waaaaay watered down.
     
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