Car and Driver Muscle Car Showdown: 2020 GT500 vs ZL1 1LE vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye

[chill66]

They mention it in the article:



Since they changed the car setup from how it left the factory, does this mean it's no longer stock?

Good catch! Thanks for sharing that. I only perused the article. Lol

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[Nomadic]

Car And Driver put handling/steering feel above everything else. Nothing wrong with that and it is really the ZLE’s strongpoint. It seems like Ford didn’t hit the mark completely in that area and the price is very high.

But I think we know the real world results. The Camaro will continue to sit unsold on dealer lots even with big discounts for all the other reasons. It’s completely compromised as a street car/daily and has the worst ergonomics of the bunch.

Most don't buy the ZLE as a daily driver. More like a weekend/track toy. And there are not huge discounts on them. Having owned a '19 GT and a '19 Camaro SS, the GT had better visibility but the SS visibility is not a hinderance except at slower speeds where there are islands. The higher door sills makes you have to sort rubber neck to see them. On the open road, visibility is really a non-issue. Done 1000 mile trips in the GT and the SS and both were superb.

 

[thill444]

that's the whole point of a sports car. Power is not irrelevant but a distant consideration. Maybe Ford can rent GM chassis and materials engineers, and GM can rent Ford's interior group.

I disagree. It’s one important factor but if handling and steering feel was the end all be all of buying a sports car then we would all be driving a Lotus.

No modern car, for me, can touch the handling feel and steering of a Lotus Elise. All of these cars in the comparison would feel like pigs and none have the feel of a manual steering rack. But, just like with the ZLE the reality is that most of us drive our cars on bad roads and not everyone likes the ergonomics of the Gen6 Camaro.

 

[thill444]

Most don't buy the ZLE as a daily driver. More like a weekend/track toy. And there are not huge discounts on them. Having owned a '19 GT and a '19 Camaro SS, the GT had better visibility but the SS visibility is not a hinderance except at slower speeds where there are islands. The higher door sills makes you have to sort rubber neck to see them. On the open road, visibility is really a non-issue. Done 1000 mile trips in the GT and the SS and both were superb.

That was my point though. The ZLE really is a track focused car. It’s a one trick pony. If the only criteria people had when buying a car is “best focused track car” then the ZLE is the best choice. That’s why I mentioned it will limit the buying pool. Most buyers want to buy a car that they can track and drive on the street.

I didn’t have to search far to find a great deal on a ZLE. Koons is offering between $6-10K off MSRP depending on what rebates you qualify for on a 19 or 20 ZLE. Since I have a Mustang I would get close to $9K off their 19 ZLE. With no negotiation. Pretty sure I could get it even lower since it’s been sitting for over a year.

 

[Concrete GT]

Another biased opinion piece by the bought and paid for car media....I'm sure they'll adjust the track times accordingly.....My guess is the splitter wickers were removed after the first timed hot lap and left off until the tires were "seasoned" on the GT500 for an "official time"

 

[chill66]

Funny, after looking at the scoring sheet, the Camaro didn't win a single category and only beat the 500 in 1 category and that's the "Vehicle" category. It beat out the 500 in that category because of "features/amenities" and "price". Those two alone accounted for 11 points over the 500. Interesting.

The 500 beat the other two cars in the "Powertrain" category and tied the Camaro in the "Chassis" category. That's saying something.

For reference, the Camaro only won the overall comparison by 2 points.

 

[ZRacerLE]

Having never been a "Camaro fan," even back in the day, I was biased going into that read but probably like a few others, surprised by the outcome.

But truthfully, I couldn't care less, it's just "another article." As has been said by more than a few, they're all great vehicles and all would be a pleasure to own. That said, I didn't mind paying the price for the Snack Pack one bit. Hell, I still can't stop going out into the garage just to look at her. <smiling> (And I bet I'm not alone.) <bigger grin>

I know the feeling feeling KB. Congrats on the CFTP car!

 

[ZRacerLE]

I disagree. It’s one important factor but if handling and steering feel was the end all be all of buying a sports car then we would all be driving a Lotus.

No modern car, for me, can touch the handling feel and steering of a Lotus Elise. All of these cars in the comparison would feel like pigs and none have the feel of a manual steering rack. But, just like with the ZLE the reality is that most of us drive our cars on bad roads and not everyone likes the ergonomics of the Gen6 Camaro.

Agreed on the Elise. Owned one in the late 2000s. ZLE reminds me of it though surprisingly given it almost weighs 2000lbs more.

 

[kilobravo]

ZRLE: <smile> See, I knew I wasn't the only one and thanks for the congrats. Gave her another bath today, I think that's three or four in...lemme think...nine days. Just call me Mr. OCD. ;-)

BTW..to the General Population..

I opened the car cover for the first time tonight. Much nicer material than on my other car. Felt-lined and elastic and I mean ELASTIC. <smile>

 

[ZRacerLE]

ZRLE: <smile> See, I knew I wasn't the only one and thanks for the congrats. Gave her another bath today, I think that's three or four in...lemme think...nine days. Just call me Mr. OCD. ;-)

BTW..to the General Population..

I opened the car cover for the first time tonight. Much nicer material than on my other car. Felt-lined and elastic and I mean ELASTIC. <smile>

Now... when is your first track day?

... and I understand if you want draw out the "waxer phase" and postpone the "racer phase". The thought of tearing up such a beautiful beast is a terrible one. It's only a matter of time though...

 

[Minn19]

I disagree. It’s one important factor but if handling and steering feel was the end all be all of buying a sports car then we would all be driving a Lotus.

No modern car, for me, can touch the handling feel and steering of a Lotus Elise. All of these cars in the comparison would feel like pigs and none have the feel of a manual steering rack. But, just like with the ZLE the reality is that most of us drive our cars on bad roads and not everyone likes the ergonomics of the Gen6 Camaro.

Agreed to the top part if you are talking about a GT350, base GT500 or ZL1. I very much disagree when you are talking about the GT350R, GT500 CFTP and ZLE. Chevy did their homework when it came to the ZLE and it shows time and time again. The GT350R didn’t go far enough and the CFTP even less so. When you are talking about the top level track versions of these cars steering feel, adjustability and handling etc should be paramount. Especially when it is a two seater big coupe in the case of the GT350R and CFTP GT500.

 

[V00D00]

do they mention which setting they drove the 500s in? I would not be suprised if the left it in normal, or dare i say sport. track is a different animal. If your telling me Track is numb.. id have to drive what isnt by those standards

 

[newmoon]

do they mention which setting they drove the 500s in? I would not be suprised if the left it in normal, or dare i say sport. track is a different animal. If your telling me Track is numb.. id have to drive what isnt by those standards

Maybe steering feel is part of the experience, many reviews called the non 1LE ZL1 numb. Maybe the violent nature of the 1LE suspension adds to the excitement at least on track.

 

[Checkmate]

Another biased opinion piece by the bought and paid for car media....I'm sure they'll adjust the track times accordingly.....My guess is the splitter wickers were removed after the first timed hot lap and left off until the tires were "seasoned" on the GT500 for an "official time"

Nope. Car and Driver is renown in the media world as being the most fair and balanced magazine out there (even Jason Camissa said their testing parameters are the best in the industry).

You will not have to worry about 'shot tires' or any of that garbage with Car and Driver. Manufacturers supply them with all the tools and extra tires to ensure everything is fair.

Billy Johnson would be happy that C/D adjusted the GT500 to the most hardcore track setting.....setting road course lap times.

Job well done here by C/D. No complaints. The ZL1 1LE is the better sports car. They summarized it as follows -


"It has the finest-handling, best-steering chassis ever shoved under a pony car. It is a machine of great precision and trustworthiness."

"the Camaro manages the shortest stops from 100 mph (11 feet shorter than the GT500 and 35 less than the portly Challenger) and the most outright grip (a stunning 1.17 g's on the skidpad). With a talented 'shoe in control, the Camaro is quickest to 60 mph, a feat it manages in 3.4 seconds. At 11.5 seconds in the quarter-mile, it's only a tenth off the much more powerful GT500 because one had traction and one did not"

"It's the nature of the specialized 1LE package. In addition to aero doodads and cosmetic touches, the 1LE package nets buyers the track tires and a retuned suspension with trick Multimatic-supplied spool-valve dampers. Because Chevy figures 1LE buyers know what they're getting into, the company stiffens the suspension to a stunning degree"

"Of the three, the Camaro is the most rewarding and confidence-inspiring to drive. That Chevy managed to achieve this performance with the least horsepower and the lowest sticker price reveals a variety of efficiency as difficult to achieve as miles per gallon, and ever so much more thrilling"

 

[chill66]

How are the Car & Driver drivers for these tests? I am a bit surprised they were only able to manage a 3.7 0-60 in the 500. Stangmode after just a couple of tries during his very first drive in the 500, managed a 3.3 0-60 on some nasty, back road on the outskirts of Vegas. Maybe the Sport Cup tires are more susceptible to colder weather than those on the Camaro? I think they said it was 60 degrees the day they did their testing.

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