Car and Driver 20 Greatest of All Time (spoiler)

[Tank]

Hey @Hack ,

Good thread.

Ate you back in one yet?

If not, c’mon!!! You’re missing out!

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[lenFeb]

I didn't know Google make funniest, driverless car ever 2014 google firefly until I saw The Worst in CD article. But it can be used in certain environments, I guess.

 

[GrimLemur]

Nice to own two GOATS (I’m a lucky guy!)

Holy smokes. Glad you replied! Hope your R is running well.

Is the GT3 that much more fun than the Shelby?

Most of us can only vicariously compare for now.

 

[Montoya]

Holy smokes. Glad you replied! Hope your R is running well.

Is the GT3 that much more fun than the Shelby?

Most of us can only vicariously compare for now.

Is it more fun? Yes, in a different way. Both are fun and fantastic cars. I think I said it before that at their heart they are both based on their basic model 911 and Mustang. They are then highly modified with a model specific engine. The primary intent of both is to maximize the performance envelope on the track with compromises and money spent to reduce weight and improve handling. The engine is unique on each and is also maximized for the track. In the end they come to the same place and deliver outstanding performance and driving pleasure. So to answer the question which is more fun? The GT3 edges out just a bit because it is based on a smaller and lighter chassis and therefore in comparison to the GT350R seems more capable on a country road. But that is only in comparison, if I didn't have the GT3 I wouldn't know any better and think the GT350R is awesome (which I do!). Where the GT350R shines is in the way power is delivered- relative to the GT3 the rush and pull at higher RPM is more dramatic. The newer four liter in the GT3 has pretty good torque down low and therefore pulls stronger all the way through the rev range. Faster, but not the same feel as catching that rush of torque and power from 5 to 8K on the GT350R.
That can make the GT350R plenty fun too.

Just lucky to have both!

And yes the new motor is running great, not a drop of oil used so far!

 

[Hack]

Hey @Hack ,

Good thread.

Ate you back in one yet?

If not, c’mon!!! You’re missing out!

Thanks! I thought it was a good topic. Glad you agree!

Unfortunately I'm busy trying to get a 2017 GT track ready right now. It should be interesting to see how much I like it once I get on track and push the car a little. It sure feels like it's on its tip-toes compared to the hunkered down feeling of the GT350. And I miss the GT350 power to weight ratio. My plan is at least a few years with the GT and then try to find a creampuff GT350. It shouldn't be difficult I don't think. There are a lot of them out there, which makes me really happy. And who knows, maybe Ford will make a Boss 351 in the mean time.

 

[Tank]

Thanks! I thought it was a good topic. Glad you agree!

Unfortunately I'm busy trying to get a 2017 GT track ready right now. It should be interesting to see how much I like it once I get on track and push the car a little. It sure feels like it's on its tip-toes compared to the hunkered down feeling of the GT350. And I miss the GT350 power to weight ratio. My plan is at least a few years with the GT and then try to find a creampuff GT350. It shouldn't be difficult I don't think. There are a lot of them out there, which makes me really happy. And who knows, maybe Ford will make a Boss 351 in the mean time.

Solid plan Sounds like you’re busy. Have fun out there.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

Thanks! I thought it was a good topic. Glad you agree!

Unfortunately I'm busy trying to get a 2017 GT track ready right now. It should be interesting to see how much I like it once I get on track and push the car a little. It sure feels like it's on its tip-toes compared to the hunkered down feeling of the GT350. And I miss the GT350 power to weight ratio. My plan is at least a few years with the GT and then try to find a creampuff GT350. It shouldn't be difficult I don't think. There are a lot of them out there, which makes me really happy. And who knows, maybe Ford will make a Boss 351 in the mean time.

Hmmm...or a Boss 317?

 

[SlowMoe]

Is it more fun? Yes, in a different way. Both are fun and fantastic cars. I think I said it before that at their heart they are both based on their basic model 911 and Mustang. They are then highly modified with a model specific engine. The primary intent of both is to maximize the performance envelope on the track with compromises and money spent to reduce weight and improve handling. The engine is unique on each and is also maximized for the track. In the end they come to the same place and deliver outstanding performance and driving pleasure. So to answer the question which is more fun? The GT3 edges out just a bit because it is based on a smaller and lighter chassis and therefore in comparison to the GT350R seems more capable on a country road. But that is only in comparison, if I didn't have the GT3 I wouldn't know any better and think the GT350R is awesome (which I do!). Where the GT350R shines is in the way power is delivered- relative to the GT3 the rush and pull at higher RPM is more dramatic. The newer four liter in the GT3 has pretty good torque down low and therefore pulls stronger all the way through the rev range. Faster, but not the same feel as catching that rush of torque and power from 5 to 8K on the GT350R.
That can make the GT350R plenty fun too.

Just lucky to have both!

And yes the new motor is running great, not a drop of oil used so far!

So awesome to get the perspective of an owner with both cars. I just took delivery of a 2020 R and have not had a chance to drive it. (Just went in for PPF today.) As much as the 350R is a dream for me my end game as a 991.2 6MT 911 (maybe a 992 if they keep the manual around). Really hoping to have both in my garage one day.

 

[Montoya]

So awesome to get the perspective of an owner with both cars. I just took delivery of a 2020 R and have not had a chance to drive it. (Just went in for PPF today.) As much as the 350R is a dream for me my end game as a 991.2 6MT 911 (maybe a 992 if they keep the manual around). Really hoping to have both in my garage one day.

Awesome! Thanks for the reply.

I’ll leave this for you to ponder- The front tire on GT350R is the same width as the rear tire on my GT3. I now therefore conclude the GT350R as the awesomest vehicle of the two... LOL!

 

[Dave TBG]

I think car reviewers do end up with a little bit of "money is no object" attitude after getting to test cars for free. As far as I can tell as a non-owner - actually I should say I do own a Porsche, but it's the Yugo of Porsches - a 1986 NA 944. Lovely car. Any way, as a person who doesn't and will probably never own any of the Porsches that were actually on the list, I think Porsches are great cars, but they just aren't performance bargains. If you have more money than you know what to do with and you are a car guy, you will probably really enjoy a Porsche if you pick the right one. As a person with a regular job and living in flyover country, those top Porsches aren't in my budget.

LOL, don't sell your 944 short, it may be lacking in power, but there aren't many cars that can outhandle it (even 3.5 decades later) for less than 6 figures. C&D even called it the best handling car in America when it came out in '84. I spent 7-8 years autocrossing mine and did a number of track days in it too. If you could tell me how to make my Mustang handle like my 944 I'd appreciate it.

 

[Hack]

LOL, don't sell your 944 short, it may be lacking in power, but there aren't many cars that can outhandle it (even 3.5 decades later) for less than 6 figures. C&D even called it the best handling car in America when it came out in '84. I spent 7-8 years autocrossing mine and did a number of track days in it too. If you could tell me how to make my Mustang handle like my 944 I'd appreciate it.

I agree they are great handling cars. On the road course I feel like I know exactly where the front tires are within an inch or two. In the Mustang it's more like 4-8 inches. This track I go to has concrete aprons on the edges of the pavement. I think they are less than a foot wide, and theres a deep drop to the dirt if you end up going past the concrete. In the GT350 I stayed shy of the concrete, but in the 944 I had the confidence to put the tire right up on the middle of it.

And they are also very well designed and built. Lots of room for a 6'4" person like me and very comfortable inside, while being a tiny vehicle. And the chassis feels very solid - much more rigid than a Mustang while weighing 700+ lbs less.

Of course I had to push super hard to keep up with a BRZ in the corners and it completely walked me on longer straights. So the 944 seems good if you are by yourself, but on a track with modern cars they can be a bit of a rock in the stream.

 

[Dave TBG]

Of course I had to push super hard to keep up with a BRZ in the corners and it completely walked me on longer straights. So the 944 seems good if you are by yourself, but on a track with modern cars they can be a bit of a rock in the stream.

All true, I didn't have to worry that much about being a moving chicane, my competitive driving was limited to autocross, road course events were DE and open lapping. Still, the double infield at Pocono was a case of "reel 'em in in the infield and watch 'em run away on the straight" twice per lap. Lime Rock wasn't as bad.
I'm a bit surprised you only mentioned wheel placement in reference to the front end, I always felt like I could put the rear wheels right up on top of the base of a cone on an autox course. It didn't hurt that I put an absurd amount of money into getting a few dozen extra hp and lightened it by a couple hundred lbs.

 

[Hack]

All true, I didn't have to worry that much about being a moving chicane, my competitive driving was limited to autocross, road course events were DE and open lapping. Still, the double infield at Pocono was a case of "reel 'em in in the infield and watch 'em run away on the straight" twice per lap. Lime Rock wasn't as bad.
I'm a bit surprised you only mentioned wheel placement in reference to the front end, I always felt like I could put the rear wheels right up on top of the base of a cone on an autox course. It didn't hurt that I put an absurd amount of money into getting a few dozen extra hp and lightened it by a couple hundred lbs.

I'm sure it's because I haven't driven it on track enough. If I had the cash and extra time it would be getting an LS or something similar. I like the chassis that much and hate the engine nearly equally.

 

[machsmith]

knew it would go down as one of the, if not the greatest mustangs ever made.

 

[machsmith]

was the FGT on that list?
Nice to own one of the greatest of all time. It's not the most exotic looking car, not the rarest (except base models). What is magical about the car is that it makes many senses happy all at once.
Think the new GT500 will make the cut in 3 or 4 years? I don't think so.

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