Can a GT350 with light track wheels & track aero match a GT350R?

[jdilissio]

After reading Motor Trend's 2016 Best Driver Car article and its recent Head to Head of the GT350R vs Camaro ZL1, I keep wondering if the simple upgrades of track lightweight wheels & track aero could quicken the GT350 to match the R? Especially because dealer markups are pushing the 350R price ridiculously high, wouldn't the smartest and more affordable plan be for a driver to buy a GT350, add light wheels & aero, and get the performance of the R for much less? The Head to Head article admits the only differences are the light carbon wheels, better areo, rear seat delete, and slightly reworked suspension. Motor Trend keeps raving about the 350R, but it's price and limited availability makes it unobtainable. Can these basic 350 upgrades provide a more affordable way to experience what the 350R offers the MT writers?

I'd love some thoughts from car guys with more track & performance expertise.

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[50 Deep]

Use the search function. This has been discussed at length numerous times.

 

[jdilissio]

In a secondary thought that I hate to admit, according to the MT Head to Head track results at the 18:52 mark, wouldn't a Camaro SS 1LE provide an even more affordable means to get the most track performance for the money? [ame]
I already know the Camaro doesn't look or sound as good, inside or out. I also know that in the 2016 MT Best Driver's Car, the GT350R bested the Camaro SS 1LE by 1.66 seconds. I wish the GT PP could match the 1LE.

 

[jdilissio]

Thanks. I tried searching for this before I posted. Must not have done a thorough enough job. I'll try again later.

 

[tdzee]

....more affordable.....to buy a GT350, add light wheels & aero, and get the performance of the R for much less? ....

Yes, there is substantial discussion on numerous threads. Short answer is basically, yes, it will very nearly replicate R performance.

The actual lap time delta between R and non R is very small. You state you have little track experience. However, it is not clear to me what you are seeking. R level performance in a non R 350? Or is it "the most track performance for the money"?

If you are not tracking these cars, what difference does it make on the street? Not much, other than for bench racing. Not knocking it, just saying. You need to decide what is actually important for your car purchase first (specs and budget), then pick the one that fits best. Good luck on your search. :cheers:

 

[CSL]

I understand and appreciate your question, and there have been many opinions expressed about this. I will attempt to answer this as clearly as possible. These cars are close enough, even in stock trim, that at the amateur driver level the better driver will almost always be faster. So if the better driver is in a regular ole 350 he will probably be faster. The mods you described essentially closes any gap. I don't like the same driver comparisons because you can't be in two cars at the same time. If you have comparable wheels/tires/aero on a 350 and two drivers are nearly identical in skill level, the better lap time will probably come from the guy who runs the cleaner lap. Gosh, but what if they both run a super clean lap?....then the guy with fresher tires will probably be faster. If everything could be exactly the same would the R be a smidge quicker.... probably? Then we ask....well, does the 350 have FP springs and R have stock R springs? It could go on and on.

I'll tell you this....I'm an experienced driver who runs in advanced level groups with very fast HIGH DOLLAR cars that are often on Hoosiers at least. My GT350 on semi-light wheels with Cup2s has never disappointed me and I am always amongst the fastest cars out there. I do much more passing than getting passed.

I would save the money and put it toward a driver coach unless exclusivity is your thing.

 

[Trackaholic]

Based on nothing but gut instinct, I would say the difference between the R and non-R would come down to:

1. Tires = 70%
2. Aero = 20%
3. Suspension tweaks = 6%
4. Wheels = 4%

Of course, sometimes a minor suspension tweak doesn't make the car markedly faster, but can make it feel more responsive, and that can have an impact in overall satisfaction.

I think the Camaro SS 1LE will be similar to the regular GT350 in speed, but will have a different feel due to the different engine characteristics and visibility. It would probably be the best initial value of the three, except the GT350 may hold its value better long term, so you might get more back if you ever sell.

All are great cars IMO.

-T

 

[honeybadger]

I understand and appreciate your question, and there have been many opinions expressed about this. I will attempt to answer this as clearly as possible. These cars are close enough, even in stock trim, that at the amateur driver level the better driver will almost always be faster. So if the better driver is in a regular ole 350 he will probably be faster. The mods you described essentially closes any gap. I don't like the same driver comparisons because you can't be in two cars at the same time. If you have comparable wheels/tires/aero on a 350 and two drivers are nearly identical in skill level, the better lap time will probably come from the guy who runs the cleaner lap. Gosh, but what if they both run a super clean lap?....then the guy with fresher tires will probably be faster. If everything could be exactly the same would the R be a smidge quicker.... probably? Then we ask....well, does the 350 have FP springs and R have stock R springs? It could go on and on.

I'll tell you this....I'm an experienced driver who runs in advanced level groups with very fast HIGH DOLLAR cars that are often on Hoosiers at least. My GT350 on semi-light wheels with Cup2s has never disappointed me and I am always amongst the fastest cars out there. I do much more passing than getting passed.

I would save the money and put it toward a driver coach unless exclusivity is your thing.

This is a great perspective if you’re truly looking for a performance comparison. Chris regularly whoops everyone’s butt on track with his non-R - including local R owners

The exclusivity is the real tangible difference between the cars. And I’d agree with Chris, driver education and track time is a much better investment if you’re looking to really get serious about your track skills.

That said, Rs sure are sexy beasts. Always a treat to see them on track.

 

[stanglife]

Cheese-n-rice....here we go again....

 

[jdilissio]

Use the search function. This has been discussed at length numerous times.

I didn't realize my question would launch a backlash of people tired of rehashing this debate. I didn't mean to unintentionally troll. 50 Deep's prompt got me looking harder to find the previous threads. They thoroughly answered my question.

Anyone who feels agitated- chill out. Just askin' a question as a fan.

 

[jdilissio]

My question was completely hypothetical & based on my wish/dream for the future. At my current skill level & HPDE instruction, my GT is more than sufficient for me learn in for the next few years.

 

[FogcitySF]

In short, yes. CorteX also sells a magnaride controller, which in theory may be able to better adjust the suspension of the non-R in a way more geared for track duty. Think the wheels add more to the R (e.g. why go through all the expense/complexity of doing so?) than most people give credit for, but can get a GT350 aftermarket wheels within a couple of lbs of the CF with lighter forged aluminum wheels, any performance differential for average amateur track driver will be negligible.

Additionally, with 18 inch wheels and the Essex Radical braking kit, I bet performance can be improved upon the R slightly.

 

[Demonic]

In a secondary thought that I hate to admit, according to the MT Head to Head track results at the 18:52 mark, wouldn't a Camaro SS 1LE provide an even more affordable means to get the most track performance for the money?

There are always ways to get better track performance for the money when it comes to any car. For example you could spend $30k on a salvage titled used sports car and another $30k doing full out caged race prep, and have a track car that would wipe either. At the end of the day much of the decision is just personal.

 

[Tomster]

I did just that (6gr wheels, soft compound tires, suspension tweaks) and found that the (track pack) car performed excellent. when the R comes, I will do a side by side comparison between a track pack and an R.

So my impressions were that it closes the gaps substantially, but of course the edge goes to the R. If you can't swing an R, you can get extremely close with a track pack and various mods

 

[ssteve]

I think that is one thing that is highly overlooked. I don't own a 350 yet but from my research I am expecting to need to add some spring rate/sway bar in the front to get the car to have the characteristics that I like... IE dial out some understeer. For the average driver that could add tenths to your lap times but if your accustomed to or prefer a car with certain characteristics that could add seconds on some courses. in the end I would rather drive a car that handles how I want it and gives up a little bit of time if need be, cause a car that understeers/oversteers more than the driver wants just wears you out.

Based on nothing but gut instinct, I would say the difference between the R and non-R would come down to:

1. Tires = 70%
2. Aero = 20%
3. Suspension tweaks = 6%
4. Wheels = 4%

Of course, sometimes a minor suspension tweak doesn't make the car markedly faster, but can make it feel more responsive, and that can have an impact in overall satisfaction.

I think the Camaro SS 1LE will be similar to the regular GT350 in speed, but will have a different feel due to the different engine characteristics and visibility. It would probably be the best initial value of the three, except the GT350 may hold its value better long term, so you might get more back if you ever sell.

All are great cars IMO.

-T

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