Camaro ZL1/1LE to have Auto Late February

[roygriffin2020]

Really? Where’s fords Ring times at for the GT350/R

http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

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[Alain]

It’s not even worth engaging in the conversation roygriffin. Let it be.

if the 350s Nurburgring time was anything to brag about then you better believe Ford would be using it.

This dude won’t get it.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I don't know why 13 seconds difference between the ZL1 and ZLE is such a big issue. The 'Ring north loop is what, ~12.9 miles? So in that distance, it's not believable that a slightly lighter car, with significantly better tires, massive aero, a DSSV suspension setup might have picked up a second a mile? And I'd even say there's probably a second or two driver/weather/air variation that makes it __totally__ plausible.

 

[Laststandard]

LOL.

THERE IS NO ACCURATE when it comes to ‘Ring times. No independent verification with multiple cars running same day and same conditions.

Ford stopped publishing their times there due to this. Anyone can literally say anything. GM was caught with making up times with the z28 and zl1 by splicing together the best times from different runs. And then shouting those times from the rooftops. That’s not how it’s done. That’s what liars do.

Those times posted were given to them. That’s not accurate. It’s not some carefully vetted process like say SAE engine ratings which exist to provide accurate facts about the motor in your vehicle.

The website you link to merely repeated what GM SAID they did - - as reported here:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...aro-zl1-1le-blitzed-the-nurburgring-in-71604/

Oh and one other point of note... the driver wasn’t some independent pro race driver either. It was literally the Chevy engineer in charge of camaro handling. Yeah. Let that sink in. Talk about an inside job that can’t be held accountable to any scrutiny... the time is a manufactured inside job.

Have an actual source that shows GM 'made up times'? Tried a few different google searches but the only faked time discussion seems to be about Lambo.

Of course, it's not like there's a video of the ZLE laptime..

 

[roygriffin2020]

It’s not even worth engaging in the conversation roygriffin. Let it be.

if the 350s Nurburgring time was anything to brag about then you better believe Ford would be using it.

This dude won’t get it.

Are you saying Dominator961 won't get it.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I don't know why 13 seconds difference between the ZL1 and ZLE is such a big issue. The 'Ring north loop is what, ~12.9 miles? So in that distance, it's not believable that a slightly lighter car, with significantly better tires, massive aero, a DSSV suspension setup might have picked up a second a mile? And I'd even say there's probably a second or two driver/weather/air variation that makes it __totally__ plausible.

Well, the thread's premise was the 13 second difference might push it below 7 by me for the auto. So maybe it won't but I would like to see both the GT500 and the ZLE A10 on any track to see the difference. WIth the GT500 having 7 speeds and the A10, well 10, what differences could that make on specific corners and especially out of that said corner. WIth the torque "maybe" being the same for both with the "leak" on this site, then will the horsepower make any difference if the GT500 is really heavy.

 

[roygriffin2020]

FYI...you can order this now.

 

[Epiphany]

Interesting that the GT500 may have been the "push" behind the auto in the ZL1-1LE but the manual in that car has/had zero influence on Ford changing their minds to offer one in the GT500.

 

[Alain]

I’ll add that the manual in my Zl1 1LE is the smoothest, best feeling manual I’ve ever driven. No weirdness in the shifter regardless of RPMs.

I think Ford will eventually release a manual for the 500. Every time they are asked about it their reply is something to the extent of “no manual option for now”.

Maybe for the second year of production a manual option will be released and that’s their Ace up the sleeve.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Interesting that the GT500 may have been the "push" behind the auto in the ZL1-1LE but the manual in that car has/had zero influence on Ford changing their minds to offer one in the GT500.

Unless they just wanted an DCT in it because they already had a manual halo car in the GT350. Or they figured out that GM was going to put the A10 in the 1LE and wanted to match it on the initial offering of the GT500.... who knows.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Well, the thread's premise was the 13 second difference might push it below 7 by me for the auto.

Er, kinda, it was more along these lines:

"The A10 ZLE will break into the 6s"

"No way"

"Well, the ZLE was 13 seconds faster than the ZL1, nobody expected that"

The problem with this: the 13s difference, while a bit surprising, was due to some factors that had massive track impact, i.e., tires, aero, DSSV, weight. Now we're talking about (AFAWK), just a transmission change (which also increases the weight a touch). I don't see how that would have as much impact, and especially considering it has to make up 16 seconds vs. the ZLE M6 time.

From Motor Trend [note the bold]:

At the big track at Willow Springs Raceway, we had Randy lap a SS 1LE, a ZL1 with a six-speed manual and a ZL1 with the 10-speed auto. The 1LE ran a 1:28.29. That's a great lap, especially when you consider that time is 0.1 second ahead of the previous-generation Camaro Z/28, which is a former BDC winner and track-focused monster with more horsepower and torque. Next up was the ZL1 with a manual. That stick-shift ran a blistering quick 1:26.16, besting the 2017 Corvette Grand Sport (1:26.28), a 2016 Mercedes-AMG GT S (1:27.04), a 2015 Porsche Turbo S (1:27.17), and a 2017 McLaren 570S prototype (1:27.21). Impressed yet?

Next up was the ZL1 with the automatic transmission. Randy only managed a time of 1:26.48. That's enough to embarrass all of the European sports cars mentioned above but slower than both the Grand Sport and the manual version of itself. To be fair, Randy felt the tires' pressures weren't set correctly, and that the abuse meted out through Turn 8 was heating the driver's side front too much, causing understeer through terrible Turn 9 . The 10-speed should be quicker than the six-speed, but it just wasn't happening.

Randy strongly felt there were some tenths left in the automatic ZL1. He worked with a couple of engineers from Chevy and kept adjusting tire pressures and lapping. The result? An unofficial lap time of 1:25.87, recorded on the ZL1's optional Performance Data Recorder (PDR).

So that's 0.29 of a second on a 2.5 mile track, they finally managed to squeak out of the A10 (I'd say it actually got more tweaking than the manual). ZL1 vs. ZL1, same spec, you know, with whatever margin of error for production variations.

Extrapolate that into the 12.9 mile 'Ring? That's ~ 1.5 seconds gain, even though I realize that's a pretty non-scientific estimate. Point being, gaining ANOTHER 16 seconds over the M6 ZLE from just a tranny change is __very__ unlikely.

 

[Hack]

Interesting that the GT500 may have been the "push" behind the auto in the ZL1-1LE but the manual in that car has/had zero influence on Ford changing their minds to offer one in the GT500.

GM following Ford = business as usual

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Interesting that the GT500 may have been the "push" behind the auto in the ZL1-1LE but the manual in that car has/had zero influence on Ford changing their minds to offer one in the GT500.

Cross posting (from the "Manual or Bust" GT500 thread) __and__ quoting myself, hahaha

Yep. Additionally, multi-billion dollar enterprises engage in extensive research studies, focus groups/testing, social media analysis, apply a little statistics, get the answers for marketing and brand management.

Oh, I'm sure they did, that's not a contradiction in the case of "manual v. <whatever>", it's how it works. However, keep in mind that kind of data only helps to inform their decision, other factors are present when they consider: what and how to build it, pricing/EOS, target markets, competitive landscape - and that's all a snapshot in time as well, based on currently available tech, and shifts in the marketspace (which could be radically different from 10 years ago or even __2__ years ago ...)

I think Ford knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Er, kinda, it was more along these lines:

"The A10 ZLE will break into the 6s"

"No way"

"Well, the ZLE was 13 seconds faster than the ZL1, nobody expected that"

The problem with this: the 13s difference, while a bit surprising, was due to some factors that had massive track impact, i.e., tires, aero, DSSV, weight. Now we're talking about (AFAWK), just a transmission change (which also increases the weight a touch). I don't see how that would have as much impact, and especially considering it has to make up 16 seconds vs. the ZLE M6 time.

From Motor Trend [note the bold]:



So that's 0.29 of a second on a 2.5 mile track, they finally managed to squeak out of the A10 (I'd say it actually got more tweaking than the manual). ZL1 vs. ZL1, same spec, you know, with whatever margin of error for production variations.

Extrapolate that into the 12.9 mile 'Ring? That's ~ 1.5 seconds gain, even though I realize that's a pretty non-scientific estimate. Point being, gaining ANOTHER 16 seconds over the M6 ZLE from just a tranny change is __very__ unlikely.

You are probably right. No way it will make that up but it will be closer to the 6.99999999 minute mark.... :-)

But to be fair you should quote me correctly which would be.... "With the auto, it should break into the 6's..." . Not "The A10 ZLE will break into the 6s" as you stated. With the emphasis on "should" not will

 

[Rothgray]

It’s not even worth engaging in the conversation roygriffin. Let it be.

if the 350s Nurburgring time was anything to brag about then you better believe Ford would be using it.

This dude won’t get it.

As you can see, I'm fairly neutral in this, you will also see the Ford GT's time absent from the list as well. Ford does not officially test on the ring. So, your statement does not really hold much water.

The time set on the GT350R was not done by the manufacturer. If I had to speculate though, I'd say the GT350R, comes close, but does not beat the base ZL1 around the ring. ZL1 1LE, not even close. Too much power difference to make up.

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