Camaro giant leaps, Mustang just enough (SS vs. GT)

[4V Mayhem]

Well then we are both off subject LOL
So your saying that the chassis is stiffer because you "as in you" can just feel it? OK, and which publications are specifically talking about how much better the Camaro Chassis Vs Mustang Chassis is? Id like to see it especially if the review was about the 350R. What would happen if FORD made a supercharged Gt350R to even up the horsepower on both cars, who do you think would win that one?

OOOH that ALPHA PLATFORM !!111one!!

There's nothing significantly better about the Camaro chassis versus the Mustang's chassis. I have driven a Camaro and it was nothing special. The chassis certainly wasn't good enough to make up for the crap motor GM puts in there.

I drove a GT, GTPP, 1SS, and a SS 1LE. The SS handles much better without a doubt. That much can be proven simply by looking at track times and figure 8 times and seeing what both cars pull in G forces. Why are we even disputing this? LOL!!

And maybe Ford should have done a supercharged GT350 in the first place. Or offered the GT350R as just a GT350 along with a higher powered supercharged Shelby as the GT350R or the GT500.

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[Coyote Red]

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[Hack]

I drove a GT, GTPP, 1SS, and a SS 1LE. The SS handles much better without a doubt. That much can be proven simply by looking at track times and figure 8 times and seeing what both cars pull in G forces. Why are we even disputing this? LOL!!

And maybe Ford should have done a supercharged GT350 in the first place. Or offered the GT350R as just a GT350 along with a higher powered supercharged Shelby as the GT350R or the GT500.

The GT350R is within spitting distance of the ZL1 which has lots more power. Does that mean the GT350R has a better chassis?

The GT350R was preferred by the reviewers as a better and more fun car compared to the ZL1.

G forces are more about tires and aero than chassis. Just because some Camaros have bigger stickier tires from the factory doesn't make the chassis better. I don't understand what is so complicated about this for you.

 

[4V Mayhem]

The GT350R is within spitting distance of the ZL1 which has lots more power. Does that mean the GT350R has a better chassis?

But the R can't beat the ZL1 on the track. Just like the GTPP can't beat the SS 1LE on the track. What, do you think they have some magic tires or something?

The GT350R was preferred by the reviewers as a better and more fun car compared to the ZL1.

Um, ok...what this has to do with the chassis of the GTPP vs the chassis of the SS 1LE is beyond me.

I don't understand what is so complicated about this for you.

I just got here...what does this even mean?? I'm just trying to see what your reasoning is for the SS 1LE being better.

 

[Hack]

But the R can't beat the ZL1 on the track. Just like the GTPP can't beat the SS 1LE on the track. What, do you think they have some magic tires or something?


I just got here...what does this even mean?? I'm just trying to see what your reasoning is for the SS 1LE being better.

If you don't get it yet, I can't help you. I've already talked multiple times about aero, big sticky tires and stiff suspension. That's why the R won the comparison against the ZL1. The ZL1 was a little quicker around the track, but the R was much more fun to drive.

The point being - the chassis on the Camaro isn't significantly better than the chassis on the Mustang. If the chassis on the Camaro was better, Chevy wouldn't have had to use overly stiff suspension and wider, stickier tires. And the ZL1 1LE wouldn't need the over the top crazy looking aero aids.

 

[4V Mayhem]

If you don't get it yet, I can't help you.

To be clear, I never asked you for help. I was trying to understand YOUR reasoning. I disagree with you completely. But I at least wanted to understand where you were coming from. It seems that isn't gonna happen tho, at least not with civility

That's why the R won the comparison against the ZL1. The ZL1 was a little quicker around the track, but the R was much more fun to drive.

Again, nobody is talking about the ZL1 vs the GT350 or what is fun to drive. The discussion is about the chassis of the GTPP vs that of the SS 1LE. So far all you've given is opinion which we all can certainly respect. But we all have opinions on this and I doubt it's about the tires. You think they built a crappy chassis and then threw some magic tires on it or something? I get it, you hate Camaros. But can you give a reasonable answer?

The point being - the chassis on the Camaro isn't significantly better than the chassis on the Mustang. If the chassis on the Camaro was better, Chevy wouldn't have had to use overly stiff suspension and wider, stickier tires. And the ZL1 1LE wouldn't need the over the top crazy looking aero aids.

Ok but isn't that the point? To put together a complete car that will use the proper components to make it work perfectly? That's like calling out GTRs for having a turbo or calling out the Shelby for having an 8250 RPM and CF wheels or calling out the GT for having a V8. The car is built as a whole and works together. If they're making up for this or that with something or the other then it still works and works pretty darn well. So how can you fault it? And even if the tires and whatever are doing the work, the suspension still has to do it's job. I mean, otherwise we could all get a Fox Body and throw some tires on it and run around the track like a Shelby.

 

[Hack]

To be clear, I never asked you for help. I was trying to understand YOUR reasoning. I disagree with you completely. But I at least wanted to understand where you were coming from. It seems that isn't gonna happen tho, at least not with civility

I still don't think you understand what I'm saying. Is that why you are not going to be civil?

Again, nobody is talking about the ZL1 vs the GT350 or what is fun to drive. The discussion is about the chassis of the GTPP vs that of the SS 1LE. So far all you've given is opinion which we all can certainly respect. But we all have opinions on this and I doubt it's about the tires. You think they built a crappy chassis and then threw some magic tires on it or something? I get it, you hate Camaros. But can you give a reasonable answer?

The ZL1 has a Camaro chassis. The GT350 has a Mustang chassis. Does that make sense to you? I believe it is useful looking at the capabilities of the different models/options of the cars to see how each chassis responds to suspension tuning changes, different wheels and tires, etc. Helpful explanation or no?

I don't hate Camaros. I didn't say I hate Camaros. Not sure why you think I do. Is it lack of comprehension or just not reading my posts?

Ok but isn't that the point? To put together a complete car that will use the proper components to make it work perfectly? That's like calling out GTRs for having a turbo or calling out the Shelby for having an 8250 RPM and CF wheels or calling out the GT for having a V8. The car is built as a whole and works together. If they're making up for this or that with something or the other then it still works and works pretty darn well. So how can you fault it? And even if the tires and whatever are doing the work, the suspension still has to do it's job. I mean, otherwise we could all get a Fox Body and throw some tires on it and run around the track like a Shelby.

The whole thing started with a comment that the Camaro has a world class chassis and the Mustang's chassis is ordinary. I said the chassis of each car is very similar in capability and I still would like to see someone give me information that will show me why they think the Camaro's chassis is world class and the Mustang chassis isn't that good.

I hope my explanations are helpful for you. I tried to simplify and type out as much detail as possible without leaving any logical leaps for you to puzzle out.

 

[Strokerswild]

The whole thing started with a comment that the Camaro has a world class chassis and the Mustang's chassis is ordinary. I said the chassis of each car is very similar in capability and I still would like to see someone give me information that will show me why they think the Camaro's chassis is world class and the Mustang chassis isn't that good.

This.

I've been under both, and neither is earth-shatteringly different from the other. I will say that the weird split rear pumpkin design on the Camaro is horseshit, though. I can see those grenading spectacularly on the strip.

 

[4V Mayhem]

The ZL1 has a Camaro chassis. The GT350 has a Mustang chassis. Does that make sense to you? I believe it is useful looking at the capabilities of the different models/options of the cars to see how each chassis responds to suspension tuning changes, different wheels and tires, etc. Helpful explanation or no?

I hope my explanations are helpful for you. I tried to simplify and type out as much detail as possible without leaving any logical leaps for you to puzzle out.

Again, I don't need help. I'm simply trying to see what your logic is.

Ok so you keep bringing up the chassis of the ZL1 and the GT350R. Yet the ZL1 beat the R on the track. Are you attributing that to the fact that the ZL1 has much more hp and tq than the R and better tires? I mean the R was specifically bred for the track and comes in more expensive than the ZL1. A matter of tires and more HP/TQ could have propelled it further than it was able to do with the high revving engine, CF wheels etc. Is that what you're thinking? I'm curious as to why Ford didn't go that route. Again, to be as simple as possible, I'm just trying to understand why you personally feel the way you do about the chassis on these cars. However you slice it we can certainly say that the ZL1 has bested the R and the SS 1LE has bested the GTPP on the track regardless of how you feel about the chassis.

This.

I've been under both, and neither is earth-shatteringly different from the other. I will say that the weird split rear pumpkin design on the Camaro is horseshit, though. I can see those grenading spectacularly on the strip.

Has it happened yet? The issue with the cooling of the Mustangs is indeed a real issue which is why the discussion about warranties and trans coolers and oil separators has gone on as long as it did. But is there any indication that the Camaros will have issues on the track? Or are you looking at the design of it and speaking from opinion? Just curious.

 

[Hack]

Again, I don't need help. I'm simply trying to see what your logic is.

So is the Camaro chassis world class? Is the Mustang chassis ordinary?

Why?

No help for you in this post. Just my topic that you seem to be avoiding.

 

[4V Mayhem]

So is the Camaro chassis world class? Is the Mustang chassis ordinary?

Why?

No help for you in this post. Just my topic that you seem to be avoiding.

Come on man, what am I avoiding?

I never said the chassis was World Class. Someone else said that. And I never said the Mustang chassis was ordinary. But I do think the Camaro has built a better chassis. Can some of the performance be put on the tires? Absolutely. But you can't say it's ALL on the tires when there is such a significant gap between the performance of these cars. I mean, Ford had to up the power, add Magneride, add way better tires than it previously had, and then add a PP2 just to try to match what the SS 1LE is doing. And so far from the limited info we have the Mustang still isn't on par on the track. That alone tells you something right there. If it wasn't the chassis then they could have just slapped some awesome tires on the GTPP and called it a day.

 

[millhouse]

Come on man, what am I avoiding?

I never said the chassis was World Class. Someone else said that. And I never said the Mustang chassis was ordinary. But I do think the Camaro has built a better chassis. Can some of the performance be put on the tires? Absolutely. But you can't say it's ALL on the tires when there is such a significant gap between the performance of these cars. I mean, Ford had to up the power, add Magneride, add way better tires than it previously had, and then add a PP2 just to try to match what the SS 1LE is doing. And so far from the limited info we have the Mustang still isn't on par on the track. That alone tells you something right there. If it wasn't the chassis then they could have just slapped some awesome tires on the GTPP and called it a day.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the SS 1LE had more power, magneride, better tires, wider wheels etc. The fact that the mustang had to do the same to catch up is no indication of any chassis deficiency.

Does putting skinny, shitty tires, lesser (non magneride) suspension and a few less horsepower on the camaro make the chassis any less potent?

Did you not see how big of a tire width (and compound) advantage the 1LE has over the PP1?

 

[02gtnh]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the SS 1LE had more power, magneride, better tires, wider wheels etc. The fact that the mustang had to do the same to catch up is no indication of any chassis deficiency.

Does putting skinny, shitty tires, lesser (non magneride) suspension and a few less horsepower on the camaro make the chassis any less potent?

Did you not see how big of a tire width (and compound) advantage the 1LE has over the PP1?

The track time of the v6 1le should answer your question.

 

[millhouse]

The track time of the v6 1le should answer your question.

Funny, I have yet to see the V6 1le tested on the same track...same driver...same day. We already know that a several second difference can be had from different days alone. Now throw a different driver into the mix and you can throw that bullshit right out of here.

And of course, even the V6 1le had better tires than the previous PP.

 

[Rocketman]

Alright kids, no one has said that the chassis is "world-class", not even me. I said that Alpha chassis is fantastic. Does that mean the S550 is "ordinary"? Fuck no it doesn't, Ford did a great job with that one as well. Why does everything have to be so black and white with you people?

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