C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

[jake_zx2]

Huh. That's great that the ride on the street is similar. I'll have to drive a PP2 one day to find out whether I agree. When I switched from a regular Mustang GT to the GT350 I couldn't believe the difference. IMO the GT350 ride is just about perfect. Quite compliant, but the body motions are never uncontrolled. Every Mustang I drove in the past either wallowed around far too much or was overly stiff.

Honestly, I agree when it comes to any car prior to 2018... for 2018, the base rides pretty similar to the previous PP cars, the PP is more controlled than before, and the PP2 feels very comparable to the GT350 (although tramlining is a bit of a problem, but it's to be expected when you have 305 Cup2s rather than 285 Super Sports in the front)

I think I remember Randy saying the PP2 was poorly set up and needed a stiffer front sway bar. That must have really hurt your feelings, because I don't remember you ranting so much prior to the poor finish the PP2 had in the Best Driver's Car competition.

Honestly, doesn't hurt me at all. Randy always criticizes cars that prefer understeer, as it doesn't fit his driving style. Someone who likes a bit of oversteer (I presume like Billy Johnson, as he helped develop the car) would probably love the way the car drives. And the "poor finish" doesn't hurt at all, because it was right there with the Corvette ZR1! Like I said before (I think in this thread), I believe they rated the cars SUBJECTIVELY rather than OBJECTIVELY (I.e. the stelvio was good for an SUV, the stinger was good for a kia, etc) which is why the Mustang and Vette were so low on the list

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[Hack]

Honestly, I agree when it comes to any car prior to 2018... for 2018, the base rides pretty similar to the previous PP cars, the PP is more controlled than before, and the PP2 feels very comparable to the GT350 (although tramlining is a bit of a problem, but it's to be expected when you have 305 Cup2s rather than 285 Super Sports in the front)

Do you mean 295? The GT350 doesn't have 285 tires. It has 295 and 305.

 

[jake_zx2]

Do you mean 295? The GT350 doesn't have 285 tires. It has 295 and 305.

Oh yeah, my bad. I don't know why I was thinking 285 and 295

 

[Hack]

Yeah, 10 mm isn't a lot but I'm a little anal.

 

[Stuntman]

Yeah, 10 mm isn't a lot but I'm a little anal.

The treadwidth is actually 1" (25.4mm) wider than the GT350 PSS:

https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/

 

[Hack]

The treadwidth is actually 1" (25.4mm) wider than the GT350 PSS:

https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/

Are you saying that a 285 is 1 inch narrower than a 295? Because if you followed the conversation you would see that Jake mentioned 285 as the front tire on the GT350 and I was saying it's actually a 295.

 

[Stuntman]

Are you saying that a 285 is 1 inch narrower than a 295? Because if you followed the conversation you would see that Jake mentioned 285 as the front tire on the GT350 and I was saying it's actually a 295.

I'm saying that the treadwidth of the PP2's 305 Cup2 is 1" wider than the GT350's 295 PSS. Read the link to understand that the nominal width does not mean anything.

 

[jake_zx2]

I'm saying that the treadwidth of the PP2's 305 Cup2 is 1" wider than the GT350's 295 PSS. Read the link to understand that the nominal width does not mean anything.

True, I forgot the SC2s have a SUPER wide contact patch

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

True, I forgot the SC2s have a SUPER wide contact patch

They can actually differ quite widely based on the application. If you look at the Cup 2's on the R compared to the PSS on the 350, you'll notice the front and rears are both 1" wider in actual contact patch. But, that doesn't mean they are super wide necessarily, as even the stock Cup 2's have a slight stretch to them from the factory, which improves response, consistency of lateral grip and steering feel.

Some other tires are actually even wider for those nominal sizes. The PSS that come on the 350 are actually comparably narrow considering the nominal size designations, with much more rounded shoulder profiles similar to that of the AMG bespoke PSS's that are designed to be geared more towards street manners and driveability in inclement weather. But that is also why they made a bespoke compound for the 350 in the PSS and the Cup 2; they could make a slightly narrower tire that is better for daily driving but also has a better compound for performance driving. Meanwhile the R's Cup 2's are more aggressive in design than your standard off the shelf Cup 2's, and are designed to provide more consistent grip over the duration of its life compared to say the super aggressive Cup 2's on the Vettes and AMG GT-R that are like super glue for the first few laps and then start to taper off from that extremely high performance point.

 

[careature]

The wrong thing about all these lightning laps (IMO) is - they should all cars wear same tires. I understand it's very difficult, but that's the way it should be.

Really wonder how 2015-2017 PP with Power Pack 2/3 would compare to 2018 pp2 if they had same tires be it pirellis or michelins.

 

[4V Mayhem]

I hate to come off like I'm attacking people on here, but that's just a silly statement. The last time I was at the track I was easily passing a C7 Z06 Corvette in my GT350. Obviously the driver of the Z06 wasn't that good.

So, should I say that my GT350 is faster than a Z06? Probably not, huh?

When comparing cars and lap times, the assumption is that drivers are equal. If that is thrown out, most sporty cars are roughly equal to each other. Base EB Mustangs can beat GT350, given unequal drivers. So yes, the PP2 could win given the right driver, but that point is completely irrelevant.

I didn't take it as an attack so it's all good. I can see your point. I didn't fully explain myself properly tho. What I mean tho is that some tracks might favor the PP2 and on those tracks I'm sure it COULD beat the GT350. That much is obvious based on the fact that the PP2 beat the SS 1LE's time by a large margin on one track and then the SS 1LE did better than the PP2 on a completely different track. Of course different drivers and different days yada yada. But it's still valid. I think there are tracks where the PP2 will beat the GT350 especially if it is in it's powerband more than the GT350 or if it can use more of it's powerband. We will have to see. Even if I'm wrong and it can't I think it will be extremely close. Time will tell.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

I didn't take it as an attack so it's all good. I can see your point. I didn't fully explain myself properly tho. What I mean tho is that some tracks might favor the PP2 and on those tracks I'm sure it COULD beat the GT350. That much is obvious based on the fact that the PP2 beat the SS 1LE's time by a large margin on one track and then the SS 1LE did better than the PP2 on a completely different track. Of course different drivers and different days yada yada. But it's still valid. I think there are tracks where the PP2 will beat the GT350 especially if it is in it's powerband more than the GT350 or if it can use more of it's powerband. We will have to see. Even if I'm wrong and it can't I think it will be extremely close. Time will tell.

Personally, unless it is a short track where the horsepower advantage is taken away, I don't see it beating a 350. The 350 has a far superior powerband than the 5.0, wider torque curve, and more torque/hp in it's entire workable range on track. Might not have a great 1/4 time in comparison, but its trap speeds are 4-6mph higher based on which test you look at which is very evident of a much faster car while rolling. Which is why you see so much higher speeds going over Turn 1 at Laguna Seca in the GT350R's BDC hot lap compared to the PP2's BDC hot lap.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The wrong thing about all these lightning laps (IMO) is - they should all cars wear same tires. I understand it's very difficult, but that's the way it should be.

Really wonder how 2015-2017 PP with Power Pack 2/3 would compare to 2018 pp2 if they had same tires be it pirellis or michelins.

Nope. They should have Factory rubber. I mod everything. So I could care less. But for the paper racers and the select few. that keep their cars entirely stock. This test gives them and idea of the strongest performance in a price segment. Some cars are engineered for a certain type of tire. Putting the exact same tire on every car could actually put some cars at a disadvantage.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Personally, unless it is a short track where the horsepower advantage is taken away, I don't see it beating a 350. The 350 has a far superior powerband than the 5.0, wider torque curve, and more torque/hp in it's entire workable range on track. Might not have a great 1/4 time in comparison, but its trap speeds are 4-6mph higher based on which test you look at which is very evident of a much faster car while rolling. Which is why you see so much higher speeds going over Turn 1 at Laguna Seca in the GT350R's BDC hot lap compared to the PP2's BDC hot lap.

Corner exit speed is going to be more important than HP unless it is a pretty long straight. That requires grip. The tires on the PP2 and the SS1LE are both superior for track duty to the MPSS on the 350. It is also the biggest performance enhancement on the 350R.

I think this is why you'll see comparable lap times for a 350, PP2, and SS1LE despite the HP advantage for the 350. It's also why the 350R is faster than all 3 along with some weight savings and aero.

 

[Hack]

I'm saying that the treadwidth of the PP2's 305 Cup2 is 1" wider than the GT350's 295 PSS. Read the link to understand that the nominal width does not mean anything.

So as I suspected, you replied to me but you were off topic to the conversation that was going on.

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