C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

[Eritas]

If C&D's best driver (KC) is a couple seconds+ off a pro, and therefore his times are useless, then your claim of HPDE instructors having valid and comparable lap times must mean they are better than KC and right there with a pro.

I didn't switch at all. You're just not getting it.

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[jake_zx2]

If C&D's best driver (KC) is a couple seconds+ off a pro, and therefore his times are useless, then your claim of HPDE instructors having valid and comparable lap times must mean they are better than KC and right there with a pro.

I didn't switch at all. You're just not getting it.

No, having valid and comparable lap times would mean that his times would match KC. See; Definition- "Comparable"

You started off saying "C&D drivers are amateurs!" as if anyone could beat any of their times, then switched to "C&D drivers are only a couple seconds slower than a pro and can't be matched by a mere driving instructor!". That's a clear switch, how do you not see that?

Now can you please answer my question before invalidating youself even more;

But please tell me, if a GT350 is 3 full seconds slower around a 2 minute track, what HONESTLY makes you think it'll be LESS than 2 seconds slower around a 3 minute track? Where is the GT350 gaining distance over its big brother? Please explain, I can't wait to hear what the "pro canyon carver" has to say about real racing

 

[jake_zx2]

And I really don't understand your obsession with driver skill here... We aren't comparing the C&D times to a pro driver, we're comparing C&D times to MORE C&D times. Where the driver's skill is in comparison with a pro makes absolutely no difference, as it's the SAME LEVEL OF SKILL DRIVING BOTH CARS. This really isn't a difficult concept

 

[Eritas]

If KC is a couple seconds off a pro, and the other journalists are seconds off him, you can't say that any of their results are "comparable".

Im pretty sure KC didn't drive the GT350 & PP2. So different drivers mean any comparison is even more useless.

You didn't answer my question about who drove at Chuckwalla?

The problem with C&D is they have really crappy journalist drivers. They split up ~30 cars among 5-6 journalists of GREWGRE varying ability. If the GT350 I the same speed as the Camaro or PP2, and the GT350 driver is 5 seconds off the journalist who drove the Camaro or PP2, it's an extremely flawwed comparison and incorrect conclusion.

 

[jake_zx2]

If KC is a couple seconds off a pro, and the other journalists are seconds off him, you can't say that any of their results are "comparable".

Im pretty sure KC didn't drive the GT350 & PP2. So different drivers mean any comparison is even more useless.

You didn't answer my question about who drove at Chuckwalla?

The problem with C&D is they have really crappy journalist drivers. They split up ~30 cars among 5-6 journalists of GREWGRE varying ability. If the GT350 I the same speed as the Camaro or PP2, and the GT350 driver is 5 seconds off the journalist who drove the Camaro or PP2, it's an extremely flawwed comparison and incorrect conclusion.

So, what you're trying to say here is you have a personal bias making you think that there's "one driver to rule them all!" and because that person wasn't the one to drive the cars, the times don't matter? Do you understand how absurd that sounds? Bottom line is that they're all comparable drivers, and if KC "Apparently the ONLY skilled driver in the company" wasn't driving EITHER the PP2 or the GT350R, then the times are still comparable. This point would only hold weight if KC was driving one and Randy Pobst was driving the other. Go ahead and watch the videos, both cars were fairly well pushed to their limits and driven well. It's not like one guy was just hugging the outside line going 25mph the whole time.

I didn't answer your question about Chuckwalla because I wasn't asked about Chuckwalla, as I did not make the post referencing Chuckwalla. So when are you going to answer my question?

 

[Eritas]

Randy is better than KC. But Lightning Lap has multiple drivers. KC only drives the fastest cars. The rest are driven by other C&D journalist who are much slower than KC.

According to Billy:

"Due to the various platforms and types of tires, improper testing can vary lap times by SECONDS"

"most car magazines do not have the budget, time, or interest in proving what cars are actually faster, but rather just want “a” time and prioritize photoshoots and the “story” over finding objective performance numbers."

According to that, even Randy's results can be questionable and vary/be off by seconds. KC is seconds off Randy, and you're arguing over lap times done by a journalist who is seconds off KC. The whole thing is pointless.

 

[jake_zx2]

So, if the whole thing is pointless, can we just use common sense and say that the car with SIGNIFICANTLY more tire with mostly similar (or better) suspension without a straight line disadvantage that puts down higher cornering Gs is going to be faster?

Really, just ignore the names for a second. If the PP2 was called, say, a "Shelby GT+" and cost $56k, which do you HONESTLY think would be faster looking at the raw numbers and the evidence we have?

 

[Eritas]

The PP2 has better tires but they are pretty much the same size. The GT350 has more power and a bigger spoiler. It's probably really close but the GT350 should be faster.

 

[jake_zx2]

The PP2 has SIGNIFICANTLY better tires and they are 20mm wider in the front. The GT350 has more power, but still isn't much faster in the straights. Power is one of the most insignificant figures when it comes to road courses, a 100hp difference could mean less than .1 second a lap depending on how the power is put down. And a bigger what? I assume a bigger spoiler? But even at that, its not significant, maybe an extra 10lbs of downforce at 80mph. Tires have the most significant impact on lap times of pretty much any other part on the car, and the PP2 greatly out-tires the GT350

 

[Zitrosounds]

jake_zx2, HPDE instructor bench racing MASTER! HAHAHAHAHA

 

[jake_zx2]

Oh boy, Mr. $40k dollar mistake, coming in HOT

 

[Zitrosounds]

Oh boy, Mr. $40k dollar mistake, coming in HOT

Why buy a GT350 when you could buy a GT? Why buy a GT3 when you could buy a GT350R? Most asinine question ever or why buy a GT3 when you can get a base 911?hahahahahahahahah

 

[Zitrosounds]

Oh boy, Mr. $40k dollar mistake, coming in HOT

40k mistake lol whatever makes you feel better holmes!

 

[jake_zx2]

Why buy a GT350 when you could buy a GT? Why buy a GT3 when you could buy a GT350R? Most asinine question ever or why buy a GT3 when you can get a base 911?hahahahahahahahah

Yeah, why buy a GT350 when you can buy a GT and make it significantly faster and look the same for cheaper? Hell, I'd even entertain the GT3 vs base 911 idea... I don't know Porsches all that well, but I'm sure you could make ONE HELL of a 911 with an extra $200k to play with!

 

[Eritas]

The PP2 has SIGNIFICANTLY better tires and they are 20mm wider in the front. The GT350 has more power, but still isn't much faster in the straights. Power is one of the most insignificant figures when it comes to road courses, a 100hp difference could mean less than .1 second a lap depending on how the power is put down. And a bigger what? I assume a bigger spoiler? But even at that, its not significant, maybe an extra 10lbs of downforce at 80mph. Tires have the most significant impact on lap times of pretty much any other part on the car, and the PP2 greatly out-tires the GT350

I found where I read the GT350 is faster than the PP2:

“It will be a car that you can daily drive, especially with the comfort of the MagneRide. The track-focused Cup 2 tires are obviously aggressive and have a pretty wide footprint all the way around, which definitely helps close the gap to the GT350. It also has more downforce than the standard Mustang, but not quite as much as the Shelby. Compared with the previous Mustang, the 2018 has a higher redline — 7,500 rpm is awesome — so you are closing the gap in terms of horsepower and rev range to the Shelby. While you don’t have the transmission and diff coolers, the car doesn’t cost as much as the Shelby. Overall, you really are getting close in terms of the inherent performance parts and while it may not beat a Shelby around a racetrack (it’s close), the car is very fast and extremely capable.”

https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/

You're wrong. Now get over it.

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