C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

[Norm Peterson]

Why are hardcore track racers afraid to mod or change anything? Unless it is some 100% stock race for money (do those even exists?).

Being afraid to mod or change anything doesn't fit any reasonable definition of 'hardcore track racer'. Not even semi-serious HPDE.


Norm

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[thehunterooo]

That is the joke

 

[Hack]

Not to speak for other people, but I'm not a "hardcore" track guy by any means. 2 or 3 times at the track per year is what I've been doing. The thing is, it's nice to be able to have it all. A newer car with a warranty that is an excellent daily driver and you can go to the track a couple times a year with it.

If I was a hardcore track guy, I'd buy an older Z06 and put track only tires on it and trailer it to the track. A car like that I would not be concerned about making any and all mods that I decide the car needs. But I'm not that hardcore.

I would think that the people who are irritated about the PP2 are somewhat like me. They'd like a newer car with a warranty and they will visit the track every once in a while.

I'm still irritated I had to replace the transmission and add a rear diff cooler to my car. I don't get to the track very often, but the experience was not fun without the coolers. I know some people in similar situations would just sell. If I had known my GT350 would have this problem I never would have purchased it. That's not to say I don't love the car, but I would have bought one with the coolers.

 

[jake_zx2]

But therein is the big gripe by track folks: track focused car (from equipment and development intent) but not for the track. There are many threads on this (too many...). Many track guys don't want to modify their cars further or can't (i.e. been there done that, want a DD/track car, don't have the know-how, etc.).

See, this I don't understand one bit. I've NEVER met a serious track guy who refuses to mod their car. Only people I've ever met who feel that way are the ones who *achem* like to consider themselves "serious track guys" but really just like to tell people that and have only really been to a track about 2 times in their life

-If you bring a PP2, that has been clearly used on a road course, to a dealership and requesting warranty work for a broken part, you will be denied and your warranty voided*.

-If you bring a PP2, that has coolers installed on it and has been clearly used on a road course, to a dealership and requesting warranty work for a broken part, you will be denied and your warranty voided*.

*If the part issue is one that can be related to such driving.

This is false. Ford will not void warranties for road course use. They actually encourage track use, thus the many drive modes specifying "Track Mode Only". What ISN'T encouraged is RACING, or in other words, track events in which you compete against either other cars wheel to wheel or against a clock for a reward (i.e. Time Trial, Spec Mustang, Wheel to Wheel, etc.). HPDE and standard track days will not void a warranty

 

[Norm Peterson]

This is false. Ford will not void warranties for road course use. They actually encourage track use, thus the many drive modes specifying "Track Mode Only".

I'm not sure that's the proper interpretation. I read it as an official warning not to use such modes in street driving. Even if it's only Ford's official CYA fine print, it's still there.

What ISN'T encouraged is RACING, or in other words, track events in which you compete against either other cars wheel to wheel or against a clock for a reward (i.e. Time Trial, Spec Mustang, Wheel to Wheel, etc.). HPDE and standard track days will not void a warranty

Then perhaps the supporting systems (in this case, fluid cooling) should be sufficient for those running in the intermediate and advanced run groups.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

I'm not sure that's the proper interpretation. I read it as an official warning not to use such modes in street driving. Even if it's only Ford's official CYA fine print, it's still there.

The question was asked when the 2015 first came out, because line lock was displayed as "track use only". It was at this time that Ford stated that simply driving on track doesn't void the warranty, only competitive racing.

Then perhaps the supporting systems (in this case, fluid cooling) should be sufficient for those running in the intermediate and advanced run groups.

Absolutely, they should be

 

[Mountain376]

See, this I don't understand one bit. I've NEVER met a serious track guy who refuses to mod their car. Only people I've ever met who feel that way are the ones who *achem* like to consider themselves "serious track guys" but really just like to tell people that and have only really been to a track about 2 times in their life



This is false. Ford will not void warranties for road course use. They actually encourage track use, thus the many drive modes specifying "Track Mode Only". What ISN'T encouraged is RACING, or in other words, track events in which you compete against either other cars wheel to wheel or against a clock for a reward (i.e. Time Trial, Spec Mustang, Wheel to Wheel, etc.). HPDE and standard track days will not void a warranty

Oh yeah? Good luck to anyone that takes a none-Shelby on a track day and blows their trans or engine and wants it covered under warranty.

 

[jake_zx2]

Oh yeah? Good luck to anyone that takes a none-Shelby on a track day and blows their trans or engine and wants it covered under warranty.

I assume you haven't seen the drag guys blowing out 3rd gear and getting new transmissions under warranty?

 

[Mountain376]

I assume you haven't seen the drag guys blowing out 3rd gear and getting new transmissions under warranty?

There are always exceptions. And it's a gamble.

Here you go, straight from the 2018/19 Mustang Owners Manual and the Ford Warranty Guidelines documentation:

 

[Mountain376]

The questions are:

What does Ford define as "racing"?
What does Ford define as "dedicated track use"?

Ford directs customers to install aftermarket parts in order to sustain certain use, but also states they wont warranty the vehicle for parts related to those modifications...

Take that gamble. The process can be shit if it doesn't work out.

 

[jake_zx2]

The questions are:

What does Ford define as "racing"?
What does Ford define as "dedicated track use"?

As I previously said, Ford stated that they define "racing" as competitive events, such as time attack or wheel to wheel.

 

[Mountain376]

As I previously said, Ford stated that they define "racing" as competitive events, such as time attack or wheel to wheel.

Where did you get that from?

 

[jake_zx2]

Go ahead and email Ford, they'll tell ya that. I don't remember exactly where it was stated, as like I said, that was about 4 years ago. Bottom line is, just the other day, I saw email traffic with Ford Performance enforcing exactly what I'm saying. They're performance cars, and Ford wants you to drive the cars as they were intended. as long as you don't competitively race, then you're fine

 

[Mountain376]

Go ahead and email Ford, they'll tell ya that. I don't remember exactly where it was stated, as like I said, that was about 4 years ago. Bottom line is, just the other day, I saw email traffic with Ford Performance enforcing exactly what I'm saying. They're performance cars, and Ford wants you to drive the cars as they were intended. as long as you don't competitively race, then you're fine

As the S550 was just coming out, this was not the case, unless you struck under the “implied warranty” with Boss or Shelby cars. But maybe there has been a mindset change within Ford. I’ll throw some questions to them and see. It would be beneficial for others as well, anyway.

If what you say is true, it makes Ford’s statement on the PP2 as “not a track car” even more odd. A “track car” is a track car, whether it be HPDE, just lapping, or time trials (which is competitive). Ford is OK with people driving a none-Shelby on track (assuming to be true), never made a statement about the PP1 not being a track car, but the PP2 is not a track car?

 

[jake_zx2]

As the S550 was just coming out, this was not the case, unless you struck under the “implied warranty” with Boss or Shelby cars. But maybe there has been a mindset change within Ford. I’ll throw some questions to them and see. It would be beneficial for others as well, anyway.

If what you say is true, it makes Ford’s statement on the PP2 as “not a track car” even more odd. A “track car” is a track car, whether it be HPDE, just lapping, or time trials (which is competitive). Ford is OK with people driving a none-Shelby on track (assuming to be true), never made a statement about the PP1 not being a track car, but the PP2 is not a track car?

I remember it being said around when the S550 first came out. I think it was in an article where they were debating why line lock was even on the car, considering it was annotated as "Track use only" yet the warranty would be voided if the car was raced. They reached out to Ford, and Ford told them that they define "racing" as competitive, and they encourage mustang owners to go to HPDEs.

I believe what Ford is trying to say with their "not a track car" is that the car will be fine if you want to just go HPDE every now and then just for fun, but don't expect it to be a full on "trailer to the track and run all day" type of car. It wasn't built specifically for track use, it was built with a more "dual purpose" aim in mind (and tbh, I think it's just a load of BS from Ford so they don't 1. Cannibalize on GT350 sales, and 2. To save them from lawsuits and keep them from having to install coolers, once again going back to cannibalizing GT350 sales)

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