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C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

bluebeastsrt

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With the right cooling added to the package the PP2 would likely be a better arrive and drive track option than a SS 1LE. Without it, not so much.
The PP2 owners on this sight aren't decribing this over heating condition. Maybe they arent pushing as hard as magazine drivers? Or maybe its not the big deal everyone is trying to make it out to be? I want to go fast in a str8 line. So i bolted on a supercharger. A diff cooler is a f$$k ton cheaper than a supercharger for the guy that want to run around in circles.
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FastCarFanBoy

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at what temp does it throw the warning?
 

TomcatDriver

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The PP2 owners on this sight aren't decribing this over heating condition. Maybe they arent pushing as hard as magazine drivers? Or maybe its not the big deal everyone is trying to make it out to be? I want to go fast in a str8 line. So i bolted on a supercharger. A diff cooler is a f$$k ton cheaper than a supercharger for the guy that want to run around in circles.
I think there is no doubt that the occasional track-day guy is not pushing his car anywhere close to as much.
 

bluebeastsrt

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I think there is no doubt that the occasional track-day guy is not pushing his car anywhere close to as much.
And if thats the case. Is a cooler really needed then???
 

thehunterooo

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Why are hardcore track racers afraid to mod or change anything? Unless it is some 100% stock race for money (do those even exists?).
 

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JohnnyUtah

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This video shows the PP2 runnning almost 2:00 laps at Buttonwillow. It looks like the guy in the Video is really not even trying to hard to make a fast lap to boot. It also shows him pass a full race spec Civic Type R without even a blink and a few Porsches.

I'm impressed, however, It looks like in the Video the car through a overheated diff or trans code.

It looked like a 2:03-2:04 or so on the full lap that I see in the video. That is reasonably quick for the 13CW configuration that they are running, but quite hard to tell how the track conditions come into play.

I've only run Buttonwillow 13CW for one weekend in my SS 1LE and ran very similar times. I have a feeling they are pretty much neck and neck performance wise. It would make sense based on the specs and similarities in the packages.

That being said, I'd be pretty bummed if my car overheated at an HPDE like this. Not sure if you watched to the end of the video, but this guy had overheating issues just like car and driver report did. Doesnt seem like an anomaly to me. It just needs coolers like any other car like it on track. The GT350 without the track pack had the same problem.
 

gixxersixxerman

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Also, the Challenger is the best daily driver out of the 3. Can't argue that back seat that can comfortably fit passengers. That comes with also being a whale and heavy.
I love my GT, but I also thought the challenger I test drove would’ve made the better daily. If I could’ve got a better deal on that 392 T/A that’s what I would’ve got. But couldn’t come close to the deal on my GT.. Still I’ve seen really good drivers in those “boats” embarrass “ok” drivers in GT’s, SS’s, even some Porsche’s and other cars it shouldn’t. Obviously FCA doesn’t care about the muscle/pony car and cuircut track stuff. Straight line and DD is what they focus on and it does a good job in both those areas
 

Zitrosounds

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It looked like a 2:03-2:04 or so on the full lap that I see in the video. That is reasonably quick for the 13CW configuration that they are running, but quite hard to tell how the track conditions come into play.

I've only run Buttonwillow 13CW for one weekend in my SS 1LE and ran very similar times. I have a feeling they are pretty much neck and neck performance wise. It would make sense based on the specs and similarities in the packages.

That being said, I'd be pretty bummed if my car overheated at an HPDE like this. Not sure if you watched to the end of the video, but this guy had overheating issues just like car and driver report did. Doesnt seem like an anomaly to me. It just needs coolers like any other car like it on track. The GT350 without the track pack had the same problem.
I agree with you and say the PP2 and the SS 1Le are on par with each other give or take track difference and conditions. Having said that, The SS 1Le is most certainly the better for the track as it is ready to go the distance. Sure you can modify the PP2 for track work but with all the warranty cancelations I have witnessed recently do to modifications (Ford), me personally, I would not take on the modification unless I am willing to cover costs of cancelled warranty. Either way, the PP2 is an amazing bargain as is the SS 1LE. To be honest, most that buy these cars don’t even track them and I believe Ford knows that. Look at recent sales numbers, the new Camaro is a sales flop even with the incredible ZL1 1Le and the 1Le variants. Ford could have added coolers but the GT350 is currently filling as the track variant. PP2 or SS 1LE, both great cars. See below for some lap times for comparison. Between the SS 1LE and the PP2 it is pretty much a wash.

C&D lightning lap VIR-------MT Laguna Seca------Chuckwalla Valley

Mustang GT PP2 2:53.8----1:38.42

Camaro SS 1LE 2:54.8------1:37.78

GT350R 2:51.8------------------1:36.78----------------------1:57.87

GT350------------------------------------------------------------------2:00.82
 
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morgande

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Maybe Randy's just not always the best driver. I mean he clearly cant drive the ZR1 for shit...did you watch the video?

...
Anyone who says this probably has never driven on a track before. At a minimum, you have never driving at Laguna Seca before. Randy has set the performance lap record at LS sever times, most notably this 2018 BDC in a Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

I am a novice driver at best. I don't have a ton of experience on different tracks. Just a few really. But I've driven at LS. And I've driven several cars on it, from a Mercedes Benz AMG E63S to a Mercedes AMG GT-R. I could never get to his speeds. Not even close.

C&D, who do not employ a former pro driver for their test, also complained that the ZR1 can't put power down. GM knows the limits of the Corvette chassis. And the ZR1 was always about going beyond those limits.
 

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jake_zx2

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This video shows the PP2 runnning almost 2:00 laps at Buttonwillow. It looks like the guy in the Video is really not even trying to hard to make a fast lap to boot. It also shows him pass a full race spec Civic Type R without even a blink and a few Porsches.

I'm impressed, however, It looks like in the Video the car through a overheated diff or trans code.

Both the driver of the PP2 and GT350 appear to be novice drivers. What's notable to me is that the GT350 didn't gain much distance at all in the straights... good to see, considering I've been trying to tell people for months that the 2018 GT and the GT350 aren't far off in acceleration figures

Of note: Car and Driver ran a best 1/4 mile of 12.5 in the GT350 when comparing it to the Corvette Z51. The PP2 during World's Greatest Drag Race ran 12.6
 

Competition Orange

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Both the driver of the PP2 and GT350 appear to be novice drivers. What's notable to me is that the GT350 didn't gain much distance at all in the straights... good to see, considering I've been trying to tell people for months that the 2018 GT and the GT350 aren't far off in acceleration figures

Of note: Car and Driver ran a best 1/4 mile of 12.5 in the GT350 when comparing it to the Corvette Z51. The PP2 during World's Greatest Drag Race ran 12.6
Look at trap speeds, though.
 

4V Mayhem

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The PP2 owners on this sight aren't decribing this over heating condition. Maybe they arent pushing as hard as magazine drivers? Or maybe its not the big deal everyone is trying to make it out to be? I want to go fast in a str8 line. So i bolted on a supercharger. A diff cooler is a f$$k ton cheaper than a supercharger for the guy that want to run around in circles.
I think there is no doubt that the occasional track-day guy is not pushing his car anywhere close to as much.
And if thats the case. Is a cooler really needed then???
The way I see it is that there definitely will be people who will push these cars to the point of overheating. The car basically just became available and we're towards the cooler parts of the year. So give it time to get into the hands of people who have the ability to really push it especially during hotter months. We've seen people already pushing Z06s and the GT350s to the point of overheating and going into limp mode. And we've seen the results of that with lawsuits against Ford and Chevy. So I think it'll happen but it's just when it will happen.

The problem with the whole overheating thing is that we all know that's when parts start to fail. And so if you show up at the dealership with broken parts after it overheated on the track, is Ford going to void the warranty? Or if you put the coolers on, is Ford going to try to blame a failed part on your aftermarket coolers? That is what I would be mainly concerned with. The good thing for me is that I am not able to push these cars that far nor do I have the desire to. On a track that is. Quarter mile drag racing on a track is a different story. SO for now we'll have to wait and see what happens and what the results will be. Regardless tho Ford did do a good job with the PP2.
 

Mountain376

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The way I see it is that there definitely will be people who will push these cars to the point of overheating. The car basically just became available and we're towards the cooler parts of the year. So give it time to get into the hands of people who have the ability to really push it especially during hotter months. We've seen people already pushing Z06s and the GT350s to the point of overheating and going into limp mode. And we've seen the results of that with lawsuits against Ford and Chevy. So I think it'll happen but it's just when it will happen.

The problem with the whole overheating thing is that we all know that's when parts start to fail. And so if you show up at the dealership with broken parts after it overheated on the track, is Ford going to void the warranty? Or if you put the coolers on, is Ford going to try to blame a failed part on your aftermarket coolers? That is what I would be mainly concerned with. The good thing for me is that I am not able to push these cars that far nor do I have the desire to. On a track that is. Quarter mile drag racing on a track is a different story. SO for now we'll have to wait and see what happens and what the results will be. Regardless tho Ford did do a good job with the PP2.
Good post.

There HAVE been people with PP2 cars on this site getting the diff overheating warning. None of them are saying if it is this first or second warning that there apparently is. Well, not that I've seen yet.

I agree, most people will go out on track and drive 7/10ths MAX. However, there will be those that will go above that. Whether they are the majority or not, an OEM has to consider this and develop for this. And THAT is where Ford's "not a track car" comes into play, as stating that and also stating in the manual that coolers should be added for regular track duty is what saves Ford from considering those and designing for those that will go above 7/10ths. What Ford is saying with those statements, really, is: "We don't want to have to think about warranting this car if you drive this car on track and actually drive it to it's potential". That is not to say the car can't, as in able to sustain track use (which it for sure can, but it requires some modification).

However, even for those that only drive 7/10ths, you can also put the car in an environment/circumstance that will trigger the possibility.

But therein is the big gripe by track folks: track focused car (from equipment and development intent) but not for the track. There are many threads on this (too many...). Many track guys don't want to modify their cars further or can't (i.e. been there done that, want a DD/track car, don't have the know-how, etc.).

-If you bring a PP2, that has been clearly used on a road course, to a dealership and requesting warranty work for a broken part, you will be denied and your warranty voided*.

-If you bring a PP2, that has coolers installed on it and has been clearly used on a road course, to a dealership and requesting warranty work for a broken part, you will be denied and your warranty voided*.

*If the part issue is one that can be related to such driving.
 

Norm Peterson

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A diff cooler is a f$$k ton cheaper than a supercharger for the guy that want to run around in circles.
I don't think the expense is the big objection. It's having to make the mod in the first place.


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