Bummed after driving ‘17 2SS

[Coyote Red]

Mein Gott!

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[1MeanZ]

Just my $.02. I drove a ‘18 M6 GT nonPP and I own a ‘16 M6 PP car with Borla exhaust and the level 2 Power Pack from Ford.

Based solely on driving experience and feel, my ‘16 PP car with light mods will walk all over an ‘18+ M6 non PP. My point is, with an exhaust, tune and 3.73 gear, I bet you’d be on equal enough footing to make it a driver’s race with a stock SS. An ‘18+ A10 GT PP car is obviously the best drag racer, but I think there is hope for your ‘15 with a little work.

 

[kz]

If you actually read all my posts, you’d see that:

1) bench racing is in all of us - along with actual racing, at least, that’s as it should be.But what you are saying sounds like projection. Saying otherwise is like pretending you don’t have a bias. But your posts sounds more than a little disingenuous. Like the pot calling the kettle black. Only there is no kettle in this story. Just... imagination.

2) when I’ve shared opinions, I’ve made it clear. When I’ve shared something beyond that, I’ve made it clear as well. And usually even when I’m educating a troll, I do it tongue-in-cheek, so as not to spoil the fun of competition. It’s when they get dogmatic about incorrect guesses, hopes, and assumptions, that spirit of competitiveness goes away and it just Becomes dumb - like Camaro 6 forums. That’s when threads die.

you’ll find here that most people are more lively, able to have actual discussions, admit when wrong, enjoy competition, and actually get out to enjoy their cars.

3) I’m not afraid to reply to forum trolls when they push a false narrative.

like bench racers are all about numbers - like the numbers you use to explain why the ‘18 GT doesn’t pull as hard as the ‘15 GT. LOL

to say that the ‘18 doesn’t pull harder than the ‘15 is to say you’ve driven neither. And that you are the bench racer you describe.

it’s enough to notice.

You don’t “feel” the hit in a split second like the Camaro for example, but you do feel the pressure build rapidly. And you’ll cross the line a tiny bit before the Camaro and a lot before the ‘15.

If you want to pretend the ‘18 is somehow slower than the Camaro or the ‘15 Mustang (seriously bruh? Seriously?), then it is your posts that are questionable.

Long post but unfortunately completely off topic. Neither OP nor me claimed car is slower. It's about how it feels and the numbers (gearing and Camaro's torque curve) that you like so much show that pretty clearly if you know how to read them.
Go drive the car and leave your fanboy persona at home, it screams teenager which I suspect you're not.

 

[9secondko]

Long post but unfortunately completely off topic. Neither OP nor me claimed car is slower. It's about how it feels and the numbers (gearing and Camaro's torque curve) that you like so much show that pretty clearly if you know how to read them.
Go drive the car and leave your fanboy persona at home, it screams teenager which I suspect you're not.

Like I said, enough with your projecting. You are the fanboy here. As you only know what you read. If you actually drove both, you’d know the 18 pulls harder than both the 15 Mustang GT and the Camaro, the only caveat being the Camaro tip in right at the hit.

so if we eliminated your drivel following my original post, the accuracy remains of what I said.

no one needed to read through your butthurt antagonism.

literally nothing you said needed to be said.

and as it comes to a close, you have revealed that you don’t even have a point.

for example:

my point: ‘18 is faster than ‘15 and Camaro both. This is accurate.

Your point: “you are fanboy. The numbers don’t add up because gears.”

In conclusion, your “contribution” was inaccurate and unneeded. It only stank up the joint.

Do better next time.

 

[3star2nr]

I think this is a ridiculous conversation...

First to the op. You are comparing your base model car to an SS which was designed by GM specifically to out handle and out pull the mustang... That doesn't make the SS a "vastly superior car" so calm down with that nonsense.

I've raced a few SS on track. My PP definitely has more body roll than the SS and its harder to put the power down. Messing with tire pressures can make it a driver's race. The s550 is very very easy to control at the limit in stock trim. But the Camaro does have the edge over it.

But the bigger point you're missing is this is an s550... You can make them ridiculous for very little money. You can fully upgrade your gen 2 to gt350 suspension for around 2000.00 using brand new oem parts ... For a bit more you can get the parts to make it outhandle a gt350r

Add a set of long tubes, intake and a tune and you will gap a SS all day long in pretty much any scenario... Considering what the s550s come with interms of equipment compared to a similarly equipped SS you can do all these mods and still be at or under the purchase price of a Camaro. With way better interior and ergo than the Chevy. So to me your "vastly superior" statement is an over exaggeration...

Secondly, Yes the gen 3 coyotes are faster in stock trim than a gen 2. ... As it should be its a newer car with 25 more hp....

Ive driven a 19 pp1 and compared to my 16 pp it was faster especially at higher RPMS. Why would anyone expect Ford to not learn from the gen 2 and make improvements.... It SHOULD be faster. That said once I installed a mishimoto intake tube my gen 2 feels way faster now than the 18+... Of course it doesn't have the above 6k charge the gen 3 has. But it doesn't matter because in the RPM range I use daily the cars pretty damn quick.

The s550 is a very well designed and balanced street car. It's designed to do road trips and very light track duty. On a race track even the PP is limited but it doesnt cost much to make the car do whatever you want especially on the used markets...

If you wanted to you can build a gen 2 to run 9s and still be daily driveable for under 8k easily... I dont know any other car that can do that.

 

[3star2nr]

a used whipple costs like 4k
Steeda stop the hop kit is 1000 or so
600 to Lund or PBD
Add 2k for a smaller pulley and fuel system on e85 it'll run 9s or get u damn close...

 

[codemanstang]

I think this is a ridiculous conversation...

First to the op. You are comparing your base model car to an SS which was designed by GM specifically to out handle and out pull the mustang... That doesn't make the SS a "vastly superior car" so calm down with that nonsense.

I've raced a few SS on track. My PP definitely has more body roll than the SS and its harder to put the power down. Messing with tire pressures can make it a driver's race. The s550 is very very easy to control at the limit in stock trim. But the Camaro does have the edge over it.

But the bigger point you're missing is this is an s550... You can make them ridiculous for very little money. You can fully upgrade your gen 2 to gt350 suspension for around 2000.00 using brand new oem parts ... For a bit more you can get the parts to make it outhandle a gt350r

Add a set of long tubes, intake and a tune and you will gap a SS all day long in pretty much any scenario... Considering what the s550s come with interms of equipment compared to a similarly equipped SS you can do all these mods and still be at or under the purchase price of a Camaro. With way better interior and ergo than the Chevy. So to me your "vastly superior" statement is an over exaggeration...

Secondly, Yes the gen 3 coyotes are faster in stock trim than a gen 2. ... As it should be its a newer car with 25 more hp....

Ive driven a 19 pp1 and compared to my 16 pp it was faster especially at higher RPMS. Why would anyone expect Ford to not learn from the gen 2 and make improvements.... It SHOULD be faster. That said once I installed a mishimoto intake tube my gen 2 feels way faster now than the 18+... Of course it doesn't have the above 6k charge the gen 3 has. But it doesn't matter because in the RPM range I use daily the cars pretty damn quick.

The s550 is a very well designed and balanced street car. It's designed to do road trips and very light track duty. On a race track even the PP is limited but it doesnt cost much to make the car do whatever you want especially on the used markets...

If you wanted to you can build a gen 2 to run 9s and still be daily driveable for under 8k easily... I dont know any other car that can do that.

So what happens when you mod the Camaro? Also seeing 1ss for around 30k new , 1le your looking at 40+k.

Ergonomics is opinion. Actually prefer how I fit in the Camaro over the mustang.

For 7k over a 1ss you get a 1le with magnetic suspension, oil cooler, trans cooler, LSD off the zl1, upgraded track suspension, bigger wheels, etc. This car will get the gt350 on the track stock. For 40k.

For some people down low torque is fun. It's a different driving experience depending what you want in a car. Auto throttle blip on downshifts a no lift shift on the SS is cool sht. The 5.0 engine is great, but I always wanted more low end power. I dont so much see the point of bench racing these. From my experience they are really hand and hand drivers race in a straight line. Now you put the cars through turns and the mustangs slight edge is lost. Until you hit the aftermarket and spend more money. The stock SS feels faster then my 15 intake /exhaust/ Lund tune. (I probably needed e85). But that's beyond the point. But the car that makes you go oooooooooo

 

[Hack]

So what happens when you mod the Camaro? Also seeing 1ss for around 30k new , 1le your looking at 40+k.

Ergonomics is opinion. Actually prefer how I fit in the Camaro over the mustang.

For 7k over a 1ss you get a 1le with magnetic suspension, oil cooler, trans cooler, LSD off the zl1, upgraded track suspension, bigger wheels, etc. This car will get the gt350 on the track stock. For 40k.

For some people down low torque is fun. It's a different driving experience depending what you want in a car. Auto throttle blip on downshifts a no lift shift on the SS is cool sht. The 5.0 engine is great, but I always wanted more low end power. I dont so much see the point of bench racing these. From my experience they are really hand and hand drivers race in a straight line. Now you put the cars through turns and the mustangs slight edge is lost. Until you hit the aftermarket and spend more money. The stock SS feels faster then my 15 intake /exhaust/ Lund tune. (I probably needed e85). But that's beyond the point. But the car that makes you go oooooooooo

You definitely should sell your 2015 Mustang and get a Camaro. I agree you can get great deals on a Camaro - mostly because only a few people like them and most prefer the Mustang. Take advantage of having unusual and different taste compared to most people. Your only concern would be resale value and trying to find someone who will want to buy it from you when you are ready to pass on the Camaro.

According to Randy Pobst the GT350 is quicker on the road course than the SS 1LE. But the SS 1LE is definitely cheaper. If you like the SS 1LE over the GT350 - I personally think you are nuts - but everyone has different taste and you are fortunate to like something that is cheap and easy to buy.

I do wish Ford offered coolers on the PP Mustangs. That is one advantage of the SS 1LE Camaro vs. the GT PP Mustangs.

 

[shogun32]

Randy Pobst the GT350 is quicker on the road course than the SS 1LE. But the SS 1LE is definitely cheaper. If you like the SS 1LE over the GT350 - I personally think you are nuts

$25,000 savings buys a lot of "nuts". My SS/1LE was $37.5k OTD (4% sales tax, with 2k competitive rebate). You can get a 2020 2SS/1LE for about $45K OTD so the Camaro is one of the best bargains for a track-ready car.

Ford did themselves no favors by not including diff coolers in the PP1 and PP2 packages and not putting the Tremec in the Bullitt and PP2.

 

[kz]

Like I said, enough with your projecting. You are the fanboy here. As you only know what you read. If you actually drove both, you’d know the 18 pulls harder than both the 15 Mustang GT and the Camaro, the only caveat being the Camaro tip in right at the hit.

so if we eliminated your drivel following my original post, the accuracy remains of what I said.

no one needed to read through your butthurt antagonism.

literally nothing you said needed to be said.

and as it comes to a close, you have revealed that you don’t even have a point.

for example:

my point: ‘18 is faster than ‘15 and Camaro both. This is accurate.

Your point: “you are fanboy. The numbers don’t add up because gears.”

In conclusion, your “contribution” was inaccurate and unneeded. It only stank up the joint.

Do better next time.

LOL again. My point was - your recommendation of driving 18/19 after Camaro - which still has more torque made no sense. It still doesn't. Instead you run into talking about numbers (what numbers ? 0-60 ? which in this particular discussion don't matter and don't add up.
No idea why you think I am butthurt - about someone claiming car I own is faster than Camaro ? Zero logic dude.
It's pretty simple - Camaro has more torque and off the line _feels_ faster than 18-20 manual Mustang. You can deny reality all you want, doesn't change it. And I've driven enough of these cars at the limit, beyond it and all the way to the limiter.

 

[codemanstang]

You definitely should sell your 2015 Mustang and get a Camaro. I agree you can get great deals on a Camaro - mostly because only a few people like them and most prefer the Mustang. Take advantage of having unusual and different taste compared to most people. Your only concern would be resale value and trying to find someone who will want to buy it from you when you are ready to pass on the Camaro.

According to Randy Pobst the GT350 is quicker on the road course than the SS 1LE. But the SS 1LE is definitely cheaper. If you like the SS 1LE over the GT350 - I personally think you are nuts - but everyone has different taste and you are fortunate to like something that is cheap and easy to buy.

I do wish Ford offered coolers on the PP Mustangs. That is one advantage of the SS 1LE Camaro vs. the GT PP Mustangs.

Cheap and easy to buy? Man have you shipped a Camaro? I could have got three mustangs within my range but I had to drive over an hour away for a 1le after searching for 8 months. And no they don't really want to play deals until December. The mustangs are much much easier to find and work with.

 

[9secondko]

LOL again. My point was - your recommendation of driving 18/19 after Camaro - which still has more torque made no sense. It still doesn't. Instead you run into talking about numbers (what numbers ? 0-60 ? which in this particular discussion don't matter and don't add up.
No idea why you think I am butthurt - about someone claiming car I own is faster than Camaro ? Zero logic dude.
It's pretty simple - Camaro has more torque and off the line _feels_ faster than 18-20 manual Mustang. You can deny reality all you want, doesn't change it. And I've driven enough of these cars at the limit, beyond it and all the way to the limiter.

it made perfect sense. Faster acceleration to 60, 1/4 mile, and better breathing at the top. The grading and the a10 perfectly suit the powerband. And that’s stock. The Camaro tip in FEELS like it hits harder initially but you can FEEL it fade, whereas the Mustang stays strong. Despite that feeling, the Mustang will beat it. Slightly, but still.

time to stop pretending you had something to say.

 

[shogun32]

The Camaro tip in FEELS like it hits harder initially but you can FEEL it fade, whereas the Mustang stays strong.

You have to spin the Coyote motor it get the rush of power. If you drive it like an old iron V8 you'll be missing the experience. The Camaro doesn't fall off as much as you seem to imply. It just doesn't have the Coyote's sensation of surge at the top.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Camaro is way faster feeling at half throttle

 

[9secondko]

it made perfect sense. Faster acceleration to 60, 1/4 mile, and better breathing at the top. The grading and the a10 perfectly suit the powerband. And that’s stock. The Camaro tip in FEELS like it hits harder initially but you can FEEL it fade, whereas the Mustang stays strong. Despite that feeling, the Mustang will beat it. Slightly, but still.

time to stop pretending you had something to say.

You have to spin the Coyote motor it get the rush of power. If you drive it like an old iron V8 you'll be missing the experience. The Camaro doesn't fall off as much as you seem to imply. It just doesn't have the Coyote's sensation of surge at the top.

the coyote is vastly superior at the top end. It’s very noticeable. And yes, the Camaro has the sudden hit with the lower rpm torque and the throttle tip-in calibration. But the Mustang has low end grunt as well. It gets where it’s going a bit faster than the Camaro as it just keeps building power, which is why the guy who was bummed about the 15 after driving the 17 Camaro wouldn’t be bummer if he went with an 18 Mustang GT. It’s faster and the fun keeps going.

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