Broken A10 Gearbox/clutch in GT'19

[BlueKnightRider]

TLDR: New pony with 9k km on the odometer dies due to defected clutch in gearbox.

More detailed story:
Just want to post information what happen to gearbox in my pony (maybe it is bigger issue and not only I have it).
Six months ago I bought brand new EU Mustang GT A10 gearbox (450 KM). After 8500 kilometers (5.3k miles) I had one problem with gears, first went to max RPM and keeps like that ~2-3s then second did the same and keep max rpm for 2-3s and then I handle that with paddle shift. (car mode normal, gearbox in D).
Went to service but no help since problem coiuldnt be reproduced.
After 2 weeks while riding 30-60km/h in city some weird sounds started coming from engine but only from time to time. (check link to audio)
Went two more times to Ford service, at first time they cleaned up my brakes (they thought that might be a problem). Didn't help, week later with second viist they decided to give a try with gearbox driver update (I red on polish mustang forum someone had similar problem with gearbox and keeping high RPMs).

[Optional issue] Three days later I went to longer trip, no signs of weird sounds, gearbox looked like downshift from 10 to 5 much quicker. Great. Stopped at gas station, filled up tank, start engine aaaand nothing happens on digital cluster. Screen had no power, indicators didnt work at all, nothing. After closing car etc. still cluster is dead. Battery reset did nothing. I had to go to destination so I went couple kilometers without gagues :/ (video 1).
Finally: After closing car for ~30min to let him sleep all ECUs/gateways I opened the car and cluster started working.

[Gearbox/clutch issue] Same day later I went to car, started engine, gearbox put first gear, seacond gear and start slowing down when it should shift to third one. Stopped and tried again to drive, same story. Turned off and on again. Now only first and second gears worked and didint slow down and didint try to shift to third gear. When I used paddle shifter on steering wheel car behaved like on neutral. After couple minutes he started skipping gears 3-7 and shift already to 8th. No weird sounds etc. just gearbox get crazy. I thought it is a problem with new driver for gearbox. (video 2)

Service dismantle the gearbox and told me the clutch is in pieces and made so much damage inside that whole gearbox have to be replaced. Do you think it might be a factory issue with that gearbox?
Car in 99% of time was used as a daily vehicle, nothing special, no speeding, traffic driving, from tiem to time dynamic driving in sport+ mode. Couple times check times 0-60, 60-120, 1/4 with racelogic.
Only modification was xpipe. I wouldnt be suprised if I use that car on track and push it hard. But it was typical use.

Do you know any other stories like mine? In service there was second mustang with A10 that had to be replaced. Also last week I heard about other mustang with same A10 gearbox and broken gearbox but in his case problem was with some solenoid valve.

Audio (time marks to weird sound):

0:10 - 0:15
0:50 - 1:03
1:19
1:29
2:38 - 2:43

Video 1 - Digital cluster doesnt work



Video 2 - Defected gearbox/clutch

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[Cobra Jet]

Sounds like SSM 47361, found in this 10R80 thread I started a while back... that SSM was applicable to the 2018’s, BUT that’s not to say a 2019+ w/10R80 couldn’t have a similar failure.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ost-recent-tsb’s-in-here.102918/#post-2619818

That thread contains all of the most current Ford SSM/TSB’s for the 10R80.

 

[3star2nr]

Service dismantle the gearbox and told me the clutch is in pieces and made so much damage inside that whole gearbox have to be replaced. Do you think it might be a factory issue with that gearbox?
Car in 99% of time was used as a daily vehicle, nothing special, no speeding, traffic driving,

With cars like Lamborghinis, BMW's, VWs and ferraris they have exactly the same issue when used primarily as a daily driver or when they spend a lit of time in traffic. The reason they break is people when they aren't hooning on it drive them like a normal automatic and do things like lug the engine at low RPMS... This causes the clutch to overheat and the fasteners stretch and it explodes... Or the clutch disk melts...

Its counter intuitive but you have to think of these cars like a normal manual gearbox with more gears and drive them that way. They arent automatics. Just like you wouldn't lug a manual, or shift into a high gear in traffic or coming off an onramp, because you'd kill the clutch the same theory applies with these cars...

The issue maybe can be solved in the programming of the automation... But yes this is a common issue that affects other brands as well, it's not a ford or mustang specific problem

 

[3star2nr]

sButsounds like Ford will fix your car for you and you'll be running again in no time. Just keep the revs up and drive it like a manual and you wont have any issues long term.

 

[BlueKnightRider]

sButsounds like Ford will fix your car for you and you'll be running again in no time. Just keep the revs up and drive it like a manual and you wont have any issues long term.

What do yuo mean by "keep the revs up"? Should I switch to manual shifting on the paddles?

 

[3star2nr]

What do yuo mean by "keep the revs up"? Should I switch to manual shifting on the paddles?

Thats what i would do... Especially for the low speed stuff. You want to keep the car in the lower gears so its not lugging the engine around at 1500 rpm... Or just monitor it, downshift when slowing down or exiting the highway

That said im just a random guy on the internet so take that with a grain of salt...

 

[Gregs24]

I don't think that advice is correct. There are hundreds of thousands of 10R80 boxes out there and a lot are daily drivers (even hire cars in the US) It isn't an exotic box (or car for that matter)

If you drive it in D then it will be exactly as Ford programmed it to work.

I do wonder if there is some other more fundamental electronic fault that has caused it - there must be some link between the display and the gearbox fault which seems a bit odd to say the least

 

[BlueKnightRider]

I don't think that advice is correct. There are hundreds of thousands of 10R80 boxes out there and a lot are daily drivers (even hire cars in the US) It isn't an exotic box (or car for that matter)

If you drive it in D then it will be exactly as Ford programmed it to work.

I do wonder if there is some other more fundamental electronic fault that has caused it - there must be some link between the display and the gearbox fault which seems a bit odd to say the least

Hard to say is there connection between cluster failure and gearbox, I think this might be coincidence but never happened before I left the car for gearbox driver update...

 

[3star2nr]

I don't think that advice is correct. There are hundreds of thousands of 10R80 boxes out there and a lot are daily drivers (even hire cars in the US) It isn't an exotic box (or car for that matter)

If you drive it in D then it will be exactly as Ford programmed it to work.

I do wonder if there is some other more fundamental electronic fault that has caused it - there must be some link between the display and the gearbox fault which seems a bit odd to say the least

Firstly what you are saying is factually correct so i largely agree with you. Drivetrain issues are tricky because there are a lot of variables and each car will endure different wear throughout the course of its life.

So im not claiming to be an expert and yes it's not an exotic car. But these problems exist on pretty much any platform regardless of brand.

If you go check a BMW forum, you'll find exactly the same issue above. And cars like the M5 and 3s are so bad some years they have to swap clutches every 20-40k miles... At a price of $15k... True exotics like lambos you can cook a clutch in one weekend of heavy traffic if you arent being diligent...

The only thing that accounts for that affecting several brands is an inherent issue with the design, and more likely the way how normal people use these cars.

Not saying they are doing anything wrong. But you have to understand that these arent automatics in the traditional sense so it requires a different mindset

Remember this technology was initially developed for racing applications. And generally speaking, once you take something for racing and try to make it streetable and mass producable you'll have issues. On the street reliability and longevity is more desireable than flat out performance and street driving is a very different engineering problem than race car applications.

Just saying, this isnt a one off or a brand specific problem. And i think just by changing your driving style, you can improve the life of the car. The key as I see it is to always make sure the car is in the right gear for the given situation, especially since it doesnt have a torque converter.

Ford does a great job programming but the car doesnt have eyes... So its doing its best to approximate what gear you need to be in based on feedback from its sensors. You as a driver will always make better judgment than the car in that respect... All autonomous shifting systems lug... Just on these trannies its dangerous.

But i agree my advice could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Nonsequitur]

Firstly what you are saying is factually correct so i largely agree with you. Drivetrain issues are tricky because there are a lot of variables and each car will endure different wear throughout the course of its life.

So im not claiming to be an expert and yes it's not an exotic car. But these problems exist on pretty much any platform regardless of brand.

If you go check a BMW forum, you'll find exactly the same issue above. And cars like the M5 and 3s are so bad some years they have to swap clutches every 20-40k miles... At a price of $15k... True exotics like lambos you can cook a clutch in one weekend of heavy traffic if you arent being diligent...

The only thing that accounts for that affecting several brands is an inherent issue with the design, and more likely the way how normal people use these cars.

Not saying they are doing anything wrong. But you have to understand that these arent automatics in the traditional sense so it requires a different mindset

Remember this technology was initially developed for racing applications. And generally speaking, once you take something for racing and try to make it streetable and mass producable you'll have issues. On the street reliability and longevity is more desireable than flat out performance and street driving is a very different engineering problem than race car applications.

Just saying, this isnt a one off or a brand specific problem. And i think just by changing your driving style, you can improve the life of the car. The key as I see it is to always make sure the car is in the right gear for the given situation, especially since it doesnt have a torque converter.

Ford does a great job programming but the car doesnt have eyes... So its doing its best to approximate what gear you need to be in based on feedback from its sensors. You as a driver will always make better judgment than the car in that respect... All autonomous shifting systems lug... Just on these trannies its dangerous.

But i agree my advice could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt.

What you are talking about is mostly true for dual clutch transmissions which don't have a torque converter. The 10R80 is just your normal automatic transmission and has a torque converter so you really don't have to change your driving style. Just drive it like a normal automatic transmission. Having said that, the 10R80 differs from the 6R80 in that the gear changing process is done via electronic signals from the ECU instead of the trans oil pressure. This means that if there is a bug in the transmission software, the transmission will not shift properly and cause damage. Just google the Ford 10R80 technical papers and you'll be able to read all about it. ;)

 

[BlueKnightRider]

Its been almost 1.5months since service ordered new gearbox, today they called me with information it finally arrived and in next week car will be ready. Looks like I was really unlucky and there was not enough gearboxes in European Ford warehouse. Hope this time gearbox will live much longer.

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