Brake Pads and Rotors for Street/Track use

Optimum Performance

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Read Vorschlag's posts, the master and booster are different. Only installing the calipers and rotors actually REDUCES stopping efficacy by too much rear bias IIRC. They got slower and had bad pedal feel without the additional parts.
They are the only ones. This has been debunked several times and we have shipped roughly 20 of these kits with no issues. Rear bias was caused by way too much rear pad. We had a brake engineer (Not a disgruntled X-Ford one) run the analysis which accounts for CG, wheel base, tire grip, all caliper and M/C bore sizes and the results were opposite, meaning the claimed improvement should have been worse. Bad data can be manipulated into any story you want. The PP M/C uses a slightly larger bore but is combined with a specific booster to offset the additional pedal effort. Using the slightly smaller bore M/C (which is the same one used on the GT350 with its many more caliper pistons and area) from the base cars with the 6 Piston Brembo's hydraulically is more than sufficient. The 6 Piston Brembos installed on the Base Brake S550's actually reduce the total piston area by 4.7%, not increase it as has been suggested (again, bad data) which in the real world amounts to nothing. The Base M/C will have zero issues supplying volume to push on less surface area. That is very basic math. Ford would include a M/C and Booster with the kit if it was needed.





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Optimum Performance

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I totally agree with you on the value of the GTPP brakes. Great deals can be had for them.
I haven't been to the track in years, and really don't need a beefy brake system. I'm just pointing out that the EradiSpeed rotors are configured with inboard cooling and are significantly lighter than stock. I'm concerned that the hats are directly bolted to the rings, though. If I was working those rotors hard at the track, I'd inspect them regularly.
The other interesting thing about these rotors is that you have a choice of cross drilled or not. I would put the cross drilled rotors in the front and non-drilled in the rear. I believe the difference in surface area between drilled and not drilled may help to shift the brake bias a little to the rear.
Joe,
It is great that Baer put out a rotor with conventional cooling. Their attachment method is why it works, it can be an issue for heavy track use because it can not grow. Honestly their system with steel hats would be more reliable. For the majority of casual track day Customers this rotor with the slotted only option combined with cooling and proper brake pads, while it approaches the Brembo upgrade in cost also will be a lighter package with far more wheel options in 18".

With that I say this issue is really a non-issue. Customers can run either system successfully. Heavy cars need a lot of brake, if you have braking issues endless options are out there to meet needs and goals. Not everyone with a Base Brake S550 will run into issues because not every track day participant is trying to set track records, some are actually trying to develop driving skills.
 

sdiver68

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Joe,
Not everyone with a Base Brake S550 will run into issues because not every track day participant is trying to set track records, some are actually trying to develop driving skills.
True, depends on the track also. Just got back from Road America and battled some brake fade in stock brakes I didn't get @ GMP, running Amateur race lap times.

(Not in a Mustang but same principles apply)
 

GT350Brakes.com

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Do it once, do it right.

Pick up a used set of GTPP calipers and pick up the pads, fluid, discs and lines below.

I have a ton of customers running this setup and I guarantee you will never run out of brake.

You can run oem pads on the street and use DS1.11 on the track. You’ll be able to swap back and forth without rebedding.

I bought a EB in 2015 to do the initial testing on this very setup. This gets you to race BBK levels without paying the price.

Please message me with any questions.

http://www.gt350brakes.com/category/15-mustang-gt-pp
 

WildHorse

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The problem with these 'lightweight slotted and/or drilled rotors' when on the street.
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Radiation Joe

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The problem with these 'lightweight slotted and/or drilled rotors' when on the street.
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We've all seen the horror stories of cross drilled rotors cracking. I'm not a fan of cross drilling for a number of reasons. However, I do like the fact that I can tune brake bias by utilizing cross drilled rotors at one end or the other. Just another tool in the box.
caveat emptor
 

Norm Peterson

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I can't see varying the surface area within the pad shape being directly responsible for much of anything. Less surface area means that the unit pressure goes up (force exerted by the caliper pistons being constant here).

I think you're trading away crack resistance in order to play uncertain games with things like coefficients of friction vs temperature, effective radii to the centroids of the braking friction, and possibly some submicroscopic-level nibbling of pad material by the holes directly.


Norm
 

Radiation Joe

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I can't see varying the surface area within the pad shape being directly responsible for much of anything. Less surface area means that the unit pressure goes up (force exerted by the caliper pistons being constant here).

I think you're trading away crack resistance in order to play uncertain games with things like coefficients of friction vs temperature, effective radii to the centroids of the braking friction, and possibly some submicroscopic-level nibbling of pad material by the holes directly.


Norm
Looks like I need to review my basic physics. I thought brake force was a function of surface area. Oops.
 

Performance nut

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But if you go to a track, and start doing repeated hard braking from in excess of 100 mph, you will cook the front brakes. I know this from experience, having just done this at Road America in May. Brake pedal went to the floor after 6 laps, boiled fluid. Yes, racing fluid will help, as will track pads. But as you push the car harder, you will need to get cooling air to the rotors. The stock 4 piston rotors are worthless in this regard.
I signed up to race at COTA later this year. Suddenly this statement held a whole new meaning.
Keep in mind the stock 4 piston brakes are absolutely fine for street and autocross. It's really only HPDE where they will show their limitations.

Also, if you decided to upgrade to the GT PP Brembos, you can usually get new "take offs" for $650-700 that include the calipers, rotors, and pads (I bought mine from Shelby American). They are a simple bolt on. Food for thought.

For some reason, they aren't coming with rotors. Though they are less than $700 and pretty cheap shipping. Is it worth going with stock brakes and rotors for occasional HPDE or go with aftermarket stuff?
 

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We've all seen the horror stories of cross drilled rotors cracking. I'm not a fan of cross drilling for a number of reasons. However, I do like the fact that I can tune brake bias by utilizing cross drilled rotors at one end or the other. Just another tool in the box.
caveat emptor
Point being these lightweight brake packages are NOT street friendly.
 

Norm Peterson

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Is it worth going with stock brakes and rotors for occasional HPDE or go with aftermarket stuff?
If you mean base GT brakes, I wouldn't even consider running them past one or at most two novice events. I would advise informing your instructor.

Say you're at 120 mph with a 65 mph corner fast approaching. Do you want to have any uncertainty at all that the brakes are going to work at least well enough to keep you from going four-off, or would you prefer to have the confidence that they will, with no drama, every time?


Norm
 

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If you mean base GT brakes, I wouldn't even consider running them past one or at most two novice events. I would advise informing your instructor.

Say you're at 120 mph with a 65 mph corner fast approaching. Do you want to have any uncertainty at all that the brakes are going to work at least well enough to keep you from going four-off, or would you prefer to have the confidence that they will, with no drama, every time?


Norm
No, I'm referring the GTPP brakes. I picked some up off eBay last night. Comes with the calipers, pads, and lines. I can get stock GTPP rotors pretty cheap compared to the two piece rotors like Girodisc and AP Racing. Less than $300 shipped with splash shields (which I believe is the only part I need to upgrade from base GT brakes to GTPP brakes).

The question was whether I should run the GTPP pads and rotors or go with something a bit better. I'm doing an HPDE at COTA in October so I know they are going to get toasty.
 

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No, I'm referring the GTPP brakes. I picked some up off eBay last night. Comes with the calipers, pads, and lines. I can get stock GTPP rotors pretty cheap compared to the two piece rotors like Girodisc and AP Racing. Less than $300 shipped with splash shields (which I believe is the only part I need to upgrade from base GT brakes to GTPP brakes).

The question was whether I should run the GTPP pads and rotors or go with something a bit better. I'm doing an HPDE at COTA in October so I know they are going to get toasty.
GTPP brakes are perfectly adequate for novices, even at COTA. COTA only has two hard/sustained braking zones, relatively light otherwise.
 

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I'm not claiming an economic benefit. I'm the kind of guy who tosses the rotors from a brand new M3 to save 20 lbs of unsprung weight. These EradiSpeed rotors are lighter than stock and can survive reasonable track use with proper pads. They are a viable option for people who don't want to add the significant amounts of unsprung weight that come with the GTPP rotors. Your car won't stop any quicker with GTPP brakes, either.
They are $795 for the non PP version. For those looking for max performance PP take offs are a better value for sure.

I don't track my car so for me it was about weight(and bling factor). Between these rotors, and swapping my OEM foundry wheels for a set of Forgestars I saved over 20 lbs of unsprung weight per side. The difference is noticeable. I swear the car stops better too, but that could be me justifying my $800 purchase.
 

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Say you're at 120 mph with a 65 mph corner fast approaching. Do you want to have any uncertainty at all that the brakes are going to work at least well enough to keep you from going four-off, or would you prefer to have the confidence that they will, with no drama, every time?
Oh come on now.. your underestimating the base GT brakes I think.
 

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