BMR Tech Tip: Check those axle-to-spindle retaining nuts!

[frankrizzo487]

The broken breaker bar is a tip-off. If someone had a connecting rod loosen and suggested we correct the problem by more than doubling the torque specified by Ford few of us would follow the suggestion.

Yes because replacing a connecting rod and dealing with this bullshit issue is totally in the same ballpark SMH :/ Its not exactly easy to get that last 1/8 turn with the Ford performance half shafts... The breaker bar broke from metal fatigue, I've had it for years, but yes please tell me more about how I torqued it to double the standard LOL

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[frankrizzo487]

I'm also getting a click/creak when moving slowly starting out forward or reverse. I have checked torque on drivers side where noise appears to be coming from. It seemed ok but again the spec is stupid and makes it difficult to verify. Also I did mark it and it hasn't moved. I'm wondering about a bearing or the washer also. Car only has 8k on it. It also doesn't do it all the time.

It's not the bearing... I replaced mine with the Timken and still get the same noise..

 

[randy_tho]

Some mention of the metal crush/peel washer behind the hub. Friction washer? I'm wondering about it now.

On Sunday I replaced the axle nut using some red threadlocker and torqued to 150 plus 1/8 which took it to about 175. I let it cure until this evening and backed out of garage hearing the noise immediately. While I was in there I marked almost all bolts/nuts with a sharpie.

I almost feel it's brake related now. I can pump the clutch and lurch forward or backward and get the noise. Then brake and go in same direction and get noise. If I don't hit the brake and start again it goes away. Until braking.

 

[boB]

Some mention of the metal crush/peel washer behind the hub. Friction washer? I'm wondering about it now.

On Sunday I replaced the axle nut using some red threadlocker and torqued to 150 plus 1/8 which took it to about 175. I let it cure until this evening and backed out of garage hearing the noise immediately. While I was in there I marked almost all bolts/nuts with a sharpie.

I almost feel it's brake related now. I can pump the clutch and lurch forward or backward and get the noise. Then brake and go in same direction and get noise. If I don't hit the brake and start again it goes away. Until braking.

This brings up a few thoughts:
yes, we are torqueing the nut to about twice what the Ford spec is (85 + 1/4);
the torque on the nut is not the problem, the nut does not appear to be loosening, especially with red Loctite applied;
the joint is loosening, through bending/compression/deforming of some part other than the nut and axle shaft and this may be made worse by the additional torque.

 

[JKL1031]

Is everyone having this issue on the driver side?

I suspect the passenger side could be prone to loosening from acceleration due to the axle rotating and backing itself out from the slight play in the splines while the nut would stay in place from clamping friction.

 

[BmacIL]

Is everyone having this issue on the driver side?

I suspect the passenger side could be prone to loosening from acceleration due to the axle rotating and backing itself out from the slight play in the splines while the nut would stay in place from clamping friction.

I've only had the issue on the driver's side. Seems to be the far more common side.

 

[boB]

Is everyone having this issue on the driver side?

I suspect the passenger side could be prone to loosening from acceleration due to the axle rotating and backing itself out from the slight play in the splines while the nut would stay in place from clamping friction.

Interesting idea, would braking forces re-tighten the nut or continue to loosen it? I suppose there has to be some play in the splines but it requires a puller to remove the hub so the splines must be pretty tight. If there is some movement in the splines we would see a leading and trailing edge develop.

 

[JKL1031]

Interesting idea, would braking forces re-tighten the nut or continue to loosen it? I suppose there has to be some play in the splines but it requires a puller to remove the hub so the splines must be pretty tight. If there is some movement in the splines we would see a leading and trailing edge develop.

Yep.
Braking would tighten as the hub and nut accelerates clockwise and the axle has CCW momentum. I also forget u have clamp pin the threads of the axle and nut.

U usually see a left hand thread on one side in applications where operating torque loosens the fastener that holds it together. Not saying this is an idea one, but just a theory.

 

[TexasRebel]

Yep.
Braking would tighten as the hub and nut accelerates clockwise and the axle has CCW momentum. I also forget u have clamp pin the threads of the axle and nut.

U usually see a left hand thread on one side in applications where operating torque loosens the fastener that holds it together. Not saying this is an idea one, but just a theory.

left hand threads are rarely used anymore to keep manufacturing costs down and interchangeability up. Then there were the geniuses (I'm looking at you, Mopar) who put left-hand threaded lug nuts on one side of the car... It was a great way to sell more studs, but not very good to the teenager who just barely knew how to change a tire and kept reciting "lefty loosey" while breaking studs on the side of the road. There aren't a whole lot of shafts with an axial nut that only turn one direction. Tapered splines, press fits, deformed threads, etc. have all made LHT just too much of a hassle.

 

[boB]

left hand threads are rarely used anymore to keep manufacturing costs down and interchangeability up. Then there were the geniuses (I'm looking at you, Mopar) who put left-hand threaded lug nuts on one side of the car... It was a great way to sell more studs, but not very good to the teenager who just barely knew how to change a tire and kept reciting "lefty loosey" while breaking studs on the side of the road. There aren't a whole lot of shafts with an axial nut that only turn one direction. Tapered splines, press fits, deformed threads, etc. have all made LHT just too much of a hassle.

I had a '61 Pontiac Tempest (I'll wait for the laughter to subside) that had left hand threads on the lug nuts on the drivers side. And that was not one of the strangest features of the car!

Back to Mustangs, the same axle/nut setup is used in many front wheel drive cars without any problems. Few of them have 460 HP though.

 

[moffetts]

I've had issues on both sides but the passenger side has been more problematic. Knock on wood, I did not have any luck with long term fixes until I replaced the half shafts and installed new hubs and nuts. It's been about 9 months and all is well, knock on wood again. Definitely seems like this is more of an issue on PP cars. Did the S197s have this same trouble?

 

[randy_tho]

I don't think so. Plus they were solid rear. The only out of place noise my 08 made besides a glorious exhaust note in 120,000 miles was the lower control arm bushings started squeeking about 70K so I put in some JM LCAs and it was a nice upgrade.

I don't think my noise is even related to the axle nut now. It seems more like an IRS deal where braking resets the joint/bushing making the noise. Keep in mind I torqued it and backed it out of the garage two days later and got the noise as I let off clutch to back out.

I've had issues on both sides but the passenger side has been more problematic. Knock on wood, I did not have any luck with long term fixes until I replaced the half shafts and installed new hubs and nuts. It's been about 9 months and all is well, knock on wood again. Definitely seems like this is more of an issue on PP cars. Did the S197s have this same trouble?

 

[moffetts]

Yeah traditionally the noise only occurs on forward/backward weight transfer. Releasing the clutch shouldn't make the noise if it's the axles/nuts/hub.

 

[randy_tho]

I should clarify that it is more of when I start backing out and see weight transfer. (Not really the clutch making a noise.)
I get a sharper fast noise if "punching" the clutch and make the car rock up or back. And it I let it come to a stop without braking the noise doesn't happen again in same direction. If I brake and go in same direction is makes the noise again. It seems like its coming from the hub area but could also be part of the IRS.

Yeah traditionally the noise only occurs on forward/backward weight transfer. Releasing the clutch shouldn't make the noise if it's the axles/nuts/hub.

 

[randy_tho]

I think this guy's first video is my noise: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/s550-mustang-rear-end-noise.111557/

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