Blown/E85 owners, what is your technique to test fuel?

[Angrey]

Okay,

So if you're super/turbo charged on E85, chances are, you don't have a dedicated E85 sensor or a flex arrangement. That means testing E85 when we fuel up for many/most of us.

I have the test tube kit which is common across many brands.

This thread is to discuss the best way to test while avoiding the various drawbacks.

1) The kit I have has a sealed container so I don't really have to clean or flush the tube afterward, I just put it back in the container and no fumes or smell in the glovebox or inside the car.
2) I'm assuming most people bring a bottle of water as a water source.
3) I'm assuming most people aren't skilled enough (including myself) to use the fuel nozzle to fill the test tube without spilling and/or overfilling.
4) That means a splash of fuel into a container of some sort, whether it be an old water bottle or some sort of re-usable vessel. What are you guys using? An empty dried out water bottle? What do you do with the fuel that remains from the transfer bottle and the test tube afterward? Are you guys just putting it in the empty bottle and throwing it in the trash can?

I bought a bunch of plastic pipettes off Amazon that make drawing fuel and precise filling of the test tube easier. I keep a handful of them in the glove box.

5) After you shake/mix, how long are you guys waiting to read? I know as the two layers "settle" the quality reading of the line between the two layers drops. Here's the problem. In many cases, I don't want to look like a jerk holding up the pump while others wait. Or are you guys taking a sample in a bottle and driving away to do the test elsewhere?

It would be interesting to come up with a general rule of thumb (as in, after you shake and the line forms, you read it and generally it drops X% or X points over the next 10 minutes).

I haven't figured out a way to test without ending up with a bottle with a small amount of fuel in it to throw away afterward. I guess I could use the filler insert and pour it in, but then the filler insert will have a faint odor of fuel for awhile and it stowes in the back under the trunk matt with the accessories. Perhaps I could keep it in a ziplock.

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[Cory S]

I bring two tester tubes. (Different type/brands). I bring a 12oz water bottle. I shake lightly for 2-3 seconds. Bring them home. Then shake them out in the yard. Let them air dry for 24 hours.

Where I go, the E85 pump is away from all the gas pumps. It’s very quiet. I also usually go at 5-6am on a weekend. I spend about 15-18 minutes at the pump filling 90-100 gallons in drums. I drive 207 miles round trip. Not a single soul is ever waiting for me. If it tests over 72%, it’s game time. (My trims will actually support down to 68%).

(Don’t have a picture of my small Fuel-It glass tube currently)

 

[Kennysum1]

This is the longest post ever for filling a small bottle with water to a fill line then topping it off with E85.

Even with a hard-core built out TT system indont test every single fill up. The Mapco has never tested below 82 ish in the year+ I have been using it. I don't expect that to change drastically but I will still test periodically.

 

[Angrey]

This is the longest post ever for filling a small bottle with water to a fill line then topping it off with E85.

Even with a hard-core built out TT system indont test every single fill up. The Mapco has never tested below 82 ish in the year+ I have been using it. I don't expect that to change drastically but I will still test periodically.

By Fed and State law it can be as low as 50%. It's rare, but does happen when the refiners run short of ethanol, they fill with more gasoline. Obviously that's not preferable for them because gasoline is almost always more expensive. But I've tested before as low as 65 and never higher than 80. It gives me an indication of comfort level with flogging the car. If I get a lower value (say lower than 70) then I take it easy(er) for the tank.

I'm just trying to get ideas on how to make the process easier so it's not a pesky aspect of E85. For someone on moderate boost, maybe it's less crucial. When you're making 16 psi at 2800 rpms and you live in South Florida, it's a different story. I'd rather test and be inconvenienced then have sad face replacing tens of thousands in built components and labor to fix something.

 

[Brandon91]

I just use a Gatorade bottle to put the fuel in before the test tube.

I’m curious to know how long people wait on the test? I check 10 minutes after and the stations around me typically show 85% but if I check a few hours later it drops down 5 more percent. At what percent should I find a different station?

 

[Cory S]

I just use a Gatorade bottle to put the fuel in before the test tube.

I’m curious to know how long people wait on the test? I check 10 minutes after and the stations around me typically show 85% but if I check a few hours later it drops down 5 more percent. At what percent should I find a different station?

Not worth “finding a different station” for E80….. Even 75% will give you the same benefit of 85%.

 

[Angrey]

Not worth “finding a different station” for E80….. Even 75% will give you the same benefit of 85%.

The pump octane number "PON" (which Americans call the "octane rating" or number) which is what we use in the US which is the average of the Mechanical and Research octane numbers are:

100% Ethanol: 113
85% Ethanol, 15% 85 Octane: 108
80% Ethanol, 20% 85 Octane: 106
75% Ethanol, 25% 85 Octane: 105
70% Ethanol, 30% 85 Octane: 103
65% Ethanol, 35% 85 Octane: 102
60% Ethanol, 40% 85 Octane: 100
55% Ethanol, 45% 85 Octane: 98
50% Ethanol, 50% 85 Octane: 97
15% Ethanol, 85% 85 Octane: 88
10% Ethanol, 90% 85 Octane: 87
100% 85 Octane: 85

So I wholeheartedly agree, going from 85 to 75 is only about a 3 point drop. Going from 85 to 65 is double.

We can use pump gas tuning as a crude reference/comparison. Going from 93 to 91 is probably not all that impactful. Going from 93 to 87 is a very noticeable difference in knock resistance.

 

[Angrey]

Interestingly, E30 is just below below 95, so for all the guys that think they're getting any benefit from it, the bump in knock resistance is marginal (compared to pump 93) and the headaches/drawbacks of finding E is 100%. I guess the big benefit is predictability (you can test) whereas 93 is a roll of the dice most times.

 

[andrewtac]

I have a glass jar I got from Amazon, has a lid. I have a small funnel that fits in the jar for storage. I don't use the pipettes, I use the funnel and pour slow at the end. I pump a squirt into the jar and transfer from it to the tube, then the water. I don't worry about exact just close. When I used to measure, it was usually obvious within a few seconds if it was good. As long as it looked like it was going to settle about 75 I'd pump into the car. The measurement goes up with time, so once it passes 75 good enough. If it looked like it wouldn't make it I'd go somewhere else. I get drums now from a local supplier; best way ever to measure. I did add a sensor in the return line with a Bluetooth to my tablet, nice to verify.

 

[Angrey]

I have a glass jar I got from Amazon, has a lid. I have a small funnel that fits in the jar for storage. I don't use the pipettes, I use the funnel and pour slow at the end. I pump a squirt into the jar and transfer from it to the tube, then the water. I don't worry about exact just close. When I used to measure, it was usually obvious within a few seconds if it was good. As long as it looked like it was going to settle about 75 I'd pump into the car. The measurement goes up with time, so once it passes 75 good enough. If it looked like it wouldn't make it I'd go somewhere else. I get drums now from a local supplier; best way ever to measure. I did add a sensor in the return line with a Bluetooth to my tablet, nice to verify.

How much was the sensor? Can you share product info?

 

[andrewtac]

Initial plan was to run NA for a bit, so I ordered https://burgertuning.com/products/fuel-it-flex-fuel-kits-ford-mustang-5-0

However, before my parts were shipped I realized I didn't buy the car for a warranty and ordered a paxton kit.

The above kit won't work, but it is complete and will show you everything you need.

I used something like this 40T-Performance E85 Flex Fuel Sensor Mount/Bracket Bypass Module - Robust Mount For FULL FLOW from your E85 Flex Fuel Sensor to Fuel Rails - Solid 6061 Billet - 6AN and 8AN Fittings Included https://a.co/d/29DTSgC

And plumbed it into the return. Used the Bluetooth and sensor from the kit I ordered.

Only works to verify, so not really necessary. I do like knowing the current value of the fuel in the car though.

 

[Duece McCracken]

I use two different test kits, bring water, and normally a 5.5 VP racing to fill. Station is about 12 miles from my house, opposite direction of work though. So I use the can as a buffer.

I adjust my testing location based on how busy things are. If the station is not busy, I test at the pump. Sometimes I just test at home. I actually should test soon. I havnt in a few fill ups. E content by me is 82-84 percent.

The real solution is a E content analyzer. I ran one on my last car, and it made everything much easier. Granted, it wont stop you from putting low E in your car, but It'll let you know real quick if you need to switch maps. Works faster/easier with a return style fuel system of course. So you can get info without having to drive around a bit. Normally within a couple minutes in my past experience

 

[Cory S]

The pump octane number "PON" (which Americans call the "octane rating" or number) which is what we use in the US which is the average of the Mechanical and Research octane numbers are:

100% Ethanol: 113
85% Ethanol, 15% 85 Octane: 108
80% Ethanol, 20% 85 Octane: 106
75% Ethanol, 25% 85 Octane: 105
70% Ethanol, 30% 85 Octane: 103
65% Ethanol, 35% 85 Octane: 102
60% Ethanol, 40% 85 Octane: 100
55% Ethanol, 45% 85 Octane: 98
50% Ethanol, 50% 85 Octane: 97
15% Ethanol, 85% 85 Octane: 88
10% Ethanol, 90% 85 Octane: 87
100% 85 Octane: 85

So I wholeheartedly agree, going from 85 to 75 is only about a 3 point drop. Going from 85 to 65 is double.

We can use pump gas tuning as a crude reference/comparison. Going from 93 to 91 is probably not all that impactful. Going from 93 to 87 is a very noticeable difference in knock resistance.

All good info. I always use the Motor octane rating/number (MON) in unique fuels that I try. It's a much better value to compare with our type of engines/operation. As you know.

93 octane gasoline has I believe only an 84 MON.....

Even some "Race fuels" have a lower MON than an E60-65 blend.

Here's a couple examples of MON from some popular unleaded race fuels.

VP MS109. The gold standard of unleaded high octane fuel = MON 99
Advertised octane is 109. (R+M/2)

VP MS100. Advertised-100 octane. MON 94.5

Sunoco 260GT. Advertised-100 octane. MON 95

Sunoco 260GT Plus. 104 octane. MON 98

In my own data testing, any fuel with a true MON above a 91-93 value, has excellent knock resistance. 95-100 MON is icing on the cake, and above 100 MON, you wont get it to knock. This is why E60+ blends provide so much knock resistance. MON is much higher with alcohols.

 

[kz]

Gatorade bottle to put gas in, syringe to suck it out of it and put in the tester.

 

[Angrey]

Initial plan was to run NA for a bit, so I ordered https://burgertuning.com/products/fuel-it-flex-fuel-kits-ford-mustang-5-0

However, before my parts were shipped I realized I didn't buy the car for a warranty and ordered a paxton kit.

The above kit won't work, but it is complete and will show you everything you need.

I used something like this 40T-Performance E85 Flex Fuel Sensor Mount/Bracket Bypass Module - Robust Mount For FULL FLOW from your E85 Flex Fuel Sensor to Fuel Rails - Solid 6061 Billet - 6AN and 8AN Fittings Included https://a.co/d/29DTSgC

And plumbed it into the return. Used the Bluetooth and sensor from the kit I ordered.

Only works to verify, so not really necessary. I do like knowing the current value of the fuel in the car though.

Thanks! You've given me some stuff to research/price.

It looks like if I go with just the sensor kit, I can get the fuel-it (without sensor) for about $209 and then buy one of the 4 sensors on Amazon for about $65. With a couple of fittings, I'd be somewhere just under $300.

To avoid any additional restriction, the split flow assembly added, would be another $100.

So about $400.

I like the Radium kit, which is a little cheaper and more flexible. Although I don't think the restriction on the return line would be that great, probably best not to risk it given my FPR is modulated based off return line pressure.

Split-Flow Flex Fuel Sensor Adapter (radiumauto.com)

Now I just have to decide if it's worth $300-$400 to avoid testing at each refill (and having anytime verification of the ethanol content).

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