Beware of Lund

[Schwerin]

I’m immediately suspicious of any aftermarket performance shop that refers to calibrations as “tunes”. This ain’t your grand daddy’s ‘69 302, no tuning carb jets and mixture screws anymore.

15 years of IT work and 10 doing my own SCT custom "tuning". Its just normal to call it a Tune. It was a Tune in 2000 when i got into cars, it's still a Tune now. "Calibration" is just a fancier term people want to use to make it sound like its worth spending more $ on. You're still tuning it, just using a keyboard instead of a screwdriver.

It's like trying to argue that Tesla "recalls" are not really a recall if they can just push a software update out and you never have to go back to the dealer to get it fixed. It's still a recall, because thats what an issue that NEEDS to get addressed is referred to as.

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[hockale1]

15 years of IT work and 10 doing my own SCT custom "tuning". Its just normal to call it a Tune. It was a Tune in 2000 when i got into cars, it's still a Tune now. "Calibration" is just a fancier term people want to use to make it sound like its worth spending more $ on. You're still tuning it, just using a keyboard instead of a screwdriver.

It's like trying to argue that Tesla "recalls" are not really a recall if they can just push a software update out and you never have to go back to the dealer to get it fixed. It's still a recall, because thats what an issue that NEEDS to get addressed is referred to as.

5 years of oem powertrain calibration here, some might call me green still. If I started exclusively referring to calibrations as tunes I would get laughed out of the meetings I’m in lol

 

[Jasonb543]

Wow .. all this shifting problem talk has me appreciating full manual valve bodies.

Makes sense now why alot of cars switch over to 3 speeds.
Not for everyone though, I get it.

 

[WildHorse]

We only had to lower the 1-2 shift point down to like 6,300 I think to get it to shift at 7900or so.

Now they're slipping the clutch packs like a mofo. May yer tranny R.I.P. with that hack tune.

 

[K4fxd]

Their pricing really needs to go up for custom tuning.

I'm going to guess 90% of their tunes are already made and are just a few mouse clicks. They can afford to spend extra time on the 10% and still make money.

First time at the track my car would SLAM the limiter on the 1-2 shift(this was 2 years ago BTW). They also told me initially it was my transmission which I couldn't believe.

This is Lunds standard reply

I let them know what I wanted and my Tuner(Dakota) was easy to work with and now my car runs great. We only had to lower the 1-2 shift point down to like 6,300 I think to get it to shift at 7900or so.

If you watch the linked video several posts up watch from 22 to about 33 min and Alex says this is the wrong way to tune shift points.

At Lund, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

 

[DaveR.PP2]

I have no experience with any tuners.

Tuning techniques and calibration processes are not necessarily one and the same. I think I know at least that distinction.

The other thing I know for certain is that regulated small businesses generally are run by honest, well focused and intentioned people satisfying customer interests and demands and they're often scrutized by regulators focusing on compliance....... many times those state and federal regulators may not necessarily be looking to close somebody down for malfeasance or non compliance of emissions or other EPA laws....

I tend to give the majority of these tuners, calibrators the benefit of their good intentions as honest operators who deserve to price what the market will pay and realize an economic profit.

Lund to me strikes me as a company that assumes the business risk rather well and navigates reasonably well in the morass of dealing with customers of all varieties and experiences, many of whom are not that well versed in many of the nuances of performance in not only this subject but in many other areas as well.

I know firsthand as a business owner the stress and difficulties of dealing with the public and regulators alike always striving to keep, retain customers and the service promise. People talk. They always will. It is human nature.

Never used Lund but I've done my research and I say unless proven otherwise these guys are legit and trying to do the right things and like most business owners are never immune from getting crapped on.

Cut them some slack.

 

[K4fxd]

Cut them some slack.

The other thing I know for certain is that regulated small businesses generally are run by honest, well focused and intentioned people satisfying customer interests and demands and they're often scrutized by regulators focusing on compliance...

Tune shops are not regulated any different than a thrift store. The EPA will get it's panties in a bunch if the shop defeats emissions devices.
Watch the video from Lund. You only need to watch about 1 min. NSFW content

 

[DaveR.PP2]

Well said. The world is full of lemmings and stupid people. And every now and then we're all one of 'em until we WAKE UP.

 

[bankyf]

Their pricing really needs to go up for custom tuning. There is not enough fat in it to cover all the weird niggles of tuning these cars, especially remotely.

Many other vehicles and their tuners are charging up to $2k usd for a custom tune which imo if you really are giving it the love it needs is fair, I'd expect several full days on the dyno for a true custom tune that drives exactly how I want it. I know it takes me literally weeks to do it myself when I have the car and all the access I need.

You just can't run a business successfully for the cheap prices unless it is primarily cut and paste with known parts.

I think many of you have unrealistic expectations for what you get for the price you pay. There may be others newer in the scene giving more love for a cheaper or the same price, but this is temporary, these people will burn out and realise the error in over servicing customers for such little money long term.

It is very easy to get jaded in this industry with the crap some tuners cop daily, there is a reason they can be blunt.

I hope this is sarcasm.....

 

[Evolvd]

I have no experience with any tuners.

Tuning techniques and calibration processes are not necessarily one and the same. I think I know at least that distinction.

The other thing I know for certain is that regulated small businesses generally are run by honest, well focused and intentioned people satisfying customer interests and demands and they're often scrutized by regulators focusing on compliance....... many times those state and federal regulators may not necessarily be looking to close somebody down for malfeasance or non compliance of emissions or other EPA laws....

I tend to give the majority of these tuners, calibrators the benefit of their good intentions as honest operators who deserve to price what the market will pay and realize an economic profit.

Lund to me strikes me as a company that assumes the business risk rather well and navigates reasonably well in the morass of dealing with customers of all varieties and experiences, many of whom are not that well versed in many of the nuances of performance in not only this subject but in many other areas as well.

I know firsthand as a business owner the stress and difficulties of dealing with the public and regulators alike always striving to keep, retain customers and the service promise. People talk. They always will. It is human nature.

Never used Lund but I've done my research and I say unless proven otherwise these guys are legit and trying to do the right things and like most business owners are never immune from getting crapped on.

Cut them some slack.

I’m sorry but when your spokesperson is ranting and raving about his customers being “f**cking morons” I will cut them zero slack. This is customer service 101, “the customer is always right”, even when they are wrong.
If a customer is being an ass then vent that to your coworkers, not your YouTube page. If someone is straight up lying about you or your service post a correction politely and then work with that customer behind the scenes to make it right. The public should NEVER see your beefs. This is basic knowledge learned in business administration.
Acting like a whiny brat on YouTube never makes you look good, it only makes you look like a shady, egotistical asshat who’s looking for confirmation in their echo chamber.

 

[Garfy]

I purchased a Lund nGauge back when my car was naturally aspirated, and then purchased custom tunes and support when we added the Whipple. They did a 91 octane tune, a race gas tune and fuel drain tune. First time at the track it was obvious something wasn't right as the car would fall on it's face on the 1-2 shift; after reviewing the datalog it was pretty apparent that's because it was flaring to 8,200rpms and taking a really long time to actually shift. This was at an event in Vegas so I immediately told them what was going on and they sent me revised tune the next morning - Great turnaround, but that was the last positive in all of this. That new tune did nothing different...

After the event I sent them more logs and told them it was still a problem. At that point they told me my 6R80 was bad and was slipping. The car had 26k miles on it and we were sure the transmission was good, but they wouldn't budge. I ended up buying a new 6R80 from PBH to the tune of $6k+ and guess what? It shifted EXACTLY the same. Lund's response? Yep, you guessed it - They told me the PBH transmission was bad as well.

After a lot of back and forth they finally started modifying the tune to change the shift points, referring to that as a 'hack tune'. I'm guessing they use that terminology anytime they can't just sell a 'canned tune', despite the fact they advertise custom tuning. Their first attempt had the 1-2 shift happening at 5,000rpms, and the 2-3 and 3-4 too low as well. Now we're on rev 11 (yeah, crazy right since these guys are supposed to be professional tuners) and it still isn't right. The 1-2 shift is actually dead on, but the 2-3 and 3-4 are about 500-800 rpms too low.

I sent them the datalog on Thursday and their response was that they wouldn't continue to help me unless I paid for more tuning support. I understand this has been a lengthy process, but I can't get the car out that often, and I've changed nothing on the car, so it's not like they're trying to hit a moving target. For a professional tuner, I find it absurd that even after 11 revisions they can't get it right and are trying to squeeze more money out of me; if they hadn't of insisted my 6R80 was bad and cost me all that money it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but their incompetence and unwillingness to admit their shortcomings cost me a bunch of money, and that's 100% on them.

At this point I'm done with them and told them as much, and not surprising me whatsoever they didn't even bother to reply to the email. So with all of that said, this is an honest review of a company that many people either purchase from, or are considering purchasing from. Be warned, they will screw you too given the opportunity!!!

So, I would love to hear any recommendations others have for tuning. I'm not going to bother changing out the 91 octane tune or fuel drain as they work well enough and I already paid for that and the nGauge. I just need a 108 octane tune that works properly, and don't care if it costs me a lot more than I'd have to pay Lund - They will never get another dollar from me, and I will continue to spread the work on their horrible Customer Service and lack of tuning ability.

Sorry to hear about all the problems you've had. I've always heard how "easy" it is to bump up the power on the Coyote merely by bolting on a SC, but that does require a "tune". Frankly, I can't afford all the $$$ especially if I ran into the kinds of things you did and I guess I've always felt that "stock" is best in terms of longevity and not having issues or problems. Besides, I think 460 HP at the crank is decent enough for me so guess I'll keep it that way. Hope your local tuner can get your car done right.

 

[4V Mayhem]

I think he tries to be little more direct and crossed the "unprofessional" line. But not taking sides - he's dealing with a gigantic number of plain morons that there is no shortage of in this world.

I've dealt with Alex (yeah, the Youtube one) and he did what I asked and was quick. Tunes works well (currently on Flex with 93 in the tank) but I have basically have stock powertrain.

Then he is in the wrong business. Guess what, if you want to make money then part of that involves dealing with customers, some of which are a bit more complicated than others. But you know what you do when you come across the more difficult ones? You smile, remember all the money you made with easy peasy customers, and have a little patience. Heck I have some rough shifts at my job. But it doesn't bother me because the super easy shifts by far outnumber the rough ones. And I got paid very generously. So maybe he needs to take into account that this is part of what he signed up for and deal with it like an adult.

I’m sorry but when your spokesperson is ranting and raving about his customers being “f**cking morons” I will cut them zero slack. This is customer service 101, “the customer is always right”, even when they are wrong.
If a customer is being an ass then vent that to your coworkers, not your YouTube page. If someone is straight up lying about you or your service post a correction politely and then work with that customer behind the scenes to make it right. The public should NEVER see your beefs. This is basic knowledge learned in business administration.
Acting like a whiny brat on YouTube never makes you look good, it only makes you look like a shady, egotistical asshat who’s looking for confirmation in their echo chamber.

A lot of these companies start off as just some dude who was an enthusiast and started his business and then it took off. So they aren't people with any idea of customer service. Unlike a company like, say, Macy's, who spends mega bucks on customer service training and implementing CS into their daily processes and continuously updates their CS policies and expectations, these guys just wing it. Which is why a lot of stuff slips under the cracks. Orders not being picked up. Wrong parts being shipped out. Calls, texts, emails, and voice messages not being replied to in a timely manner. Etc. Even if they simply hired a couple admin assistants to track things and reply to customers and maintain the daily operations, that would go a long way towards good customer service. But like I said, these guys are just winging it and haven't got a clue.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Other remote tuners will also start talking about cutting you off or asking of more money for tune service after a similar number of troubleshooting sessions.

Sorry, but I think that is completely wrong. They're in the business of selling what seems to be mostly canned tunes, which I'm sure requires very little, if any, work per tune/customer.

Company I work for has a somewhat similar business model, though not automotive related. 95+ percent of the sales requires virtually no work, but every now and then there is the odd hardware/software combination at a site and for some reason things do not work well for a particular customer. I've seen multiple engineers spending everything from days to months on figuring out the problem and fixing it, and never has the customer been asked to pay anything extra, not even when the problem after several weeks turned out to be caused by the customers own software/hardware combination (or e.g. transmission as Lund seems to have been wrongly blaming in this case).

In this model a tuner has to budget for the odd customer where their canned tunes does not work, and step up and do the required customisation and troubleshooting. I still worry about warranty, but once my warranty expires, based on what I've read in this forum, Lund would for sure be my last choice for any tuning. I've read good reviews here for other tuners (e.g. Wengerd), who do seem to stand by their work.

 

[kz]

Then he is in the wrong business. Guess what, if you want to make money then part of that involves dealing with customers, some of which are a bit more complicated than others.

That's a great write up. Really. Where it falls apart is that Lund is making money. So he can do all the unprofessional things we talk here about and is making money at the same time. LOL.

 

[Blu_stallion]

I was tuned by Lund a little over two years ago, I have a basic bolt-on / E85 setup so I'm sure my tune was a clone of many others. From my research and talking with local Mustang owners in the beginning, I was torn between Lund and PBD who seemed like the top two Coyote tuners. I chose Lund but it was basically a coin flip. Anyway, the car runs great and my experiences with Alex and the others has been fine, they have always been prompt in responding to questions and revisions.

With that said, hearing/seeing some of the feedback, videos and post from them is a major turn-off. I totally get customers can be a pain in the ass and some are downright dumb, but to say and act like they are towards THEIR OWN customers is totally unprofessional and unacceptable, it really shows their true colors. If I was starting over after seeing this I would go with PBD in a heartbeat.

Side note, I met Ken from PBD at TX2K last year, me and a buddy spoke to him for a good while and I got nothing but good vibes from him, he was very down to earth and you could tell he just generally loved talking about cars. I never mentioned I was tuned by Lund but my gut tells me he would have just laughed it off and said something like "its all good come see us if you ever have problems". The Lund team had already left by the time I was there that Sunday but something tells me now that the conversation with them wouldn't have had the same good vibes...

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