Best Long Block for FI?

Jackson1320

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For a 900whp build on a reasonable budget. I would take your block and have it sleeved Boostline rods. Mahle power pack pistons. Stock crank one set of king race bearings and one set of stock aluminum bearings. Head studs. Cometic gaskets. Stock heads with a valve job bronze guides.
If you are going E, 12:1 would be your best option. Hell the factory pistons will last on E as long as you don’t cook them. I think the factory pistons would work with 93 if the rings were regapped to allow the extra heat expansion. Most failures I have seen have been busted ring lands.
this is absolutely correct
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Jackson1320

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If 900whp is your goal I would do A stock new short block $1800 put in some Mahle power pack drop in pistons with rings$850 valve job your heads $600 and your good
 

Vegas5OH

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im doing a predator block, Manley H Tuff rods and extreme duty pistons, stock crank.
 

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If you are going E, 12:1 would be your best option. Hell the factory pistons will last on E as long as you don’t cook them. I think the factory pistons would work with 93 if the rings were regapped to allow the extra heat expansion. Most failures I have seen have been busted ring lands.
I’m not going E but maybe the OP is.

As for ring gap, I used to believe the same. I’ve built engines with ring gaps over .025”. But I’ve since compared ring gaps on all the ecoboost motors, predator, and cobra jet and found them all to be very tight and similar to the stock 5.0. Pistons break in the ring lands because that’s where detonation occurs first. The unburned mixture reaches its highest temperature and pressure in locations furthest from the plug because it’s the last bit that burns. Another interesting thought is that if you Supercharger an engine and double the air and fuel, then you double the heat released. But since you have twice the mass in the cylinder and the gas mass absorbs the heat, then the temperature of the working combusted gases is actually very close to the same. So it makes sense that the high Bmep engines like the ford GT don’t use a huge ring gap.
 

olaosunt

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im doing a predator block, Manley H Tuff rods and extreme duty pistons, stock crank.
Same here . I am sure you also did upgraded OPG
like I did . Complete long block with new heads , head studs, and upgraded springs still thousands less than the Gen 3 alluminator.

The Alluminator has always been nothing more than a stock block with upgraded rods/pistons and later OPG .
Looks like they did go back to the Boss oil tensioners which I am hoping was in the Gen 3 VCT kit is used in the long block assembly (included the billet crank gear )
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/inside-ford-performances-gen-3-aluminator-5-0-liter-engine/
 

olaosunt

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Same here . I am sure you also did upgraded OPG
like I did . Complete long block with new heads , head studs, and upgraded springs still thousands less than the Gen 3 alluminator.

The Alluminator has always been nothing more than a stock block with upgraded rods/pistons and later OPG .
Looks like they did go back to the Boss oil tensioners which I am hoping was in the Gen 3 VCT kit is used in the long block assembly (included the billet crank gear )
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/inside-ford-performances-gen-3-aluminator-5-0-liter-engine/
shoot , looks like production tensioners.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6004-A5018
 

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beefcake

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really comes down to power goals, on doing pistson and rods, vs sleeving the block

if you want to make over probably 900 wheel long term, i'd sggest sleeving it

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I can't imagine wanting more than 900whp for a street car. But, I said that about 700whp damn it's a slippery slope no matter how you look at it.

IDK, having an OEM Product like the the Aluminator might ultimately increase the resale value vs. a rebuild.
 

GreenS550

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He had OPG/CS installed (he has another thread on the forum). I'm guessing something wasn't installed properly which caused the chain to fail. I agree that 93 octane isn't he best on these engines, but it should have been ok at low boost.
I have had 5 supercharged Mustangs. The only one that had the engine go was one that I had OPG/CS installed in. It also made the lowest power. Never doing OPGs again. Really good tuners and really good mechanics are very rare.
 

GreenS550

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@GreenS550 what was the cause from the OPG?
The car never ran right after it was done along with the supercharger that was put on etc. from the get-go I thought they didn't time the cams right or something to do with it. My 2018 is my fourth supercharged coyote, and it's my belief that the oil pump gears are a function of either extreme power 800 horsepower at the wheels or something like that or bouncing off the rev limiter or the two step. I know that the 18 and up are supposed to have a much better damper. But I won't open my engine unless I do it myself after dealing with a hack. If my motor blows it's a fully forged bottom end from MMR or someone like that or I might just build it myself like I did back when I was in my twenties 40 years ago
 

Jackson1320

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I can't imagine wanting more than 900whp for a street car. But, I said that about 700whp damn it's a slippery slope no matter how you look at it.

IDK, having an OEM Product like the the Aluminator might ultimately increase the resale value vs. a rebuild.
I wouldn’t worry about resale value. I would never buy that car, I would never buy any aftermarket boosted car or built engine car. Even if it’s not true that just tells me that car has had a rough life
 
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Bullitt69

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Good Point Jackson1320...

GreenS550, this is my 3'rd Mustang, first time with a Coyote. All three have had FI installed.

Maybe I fell for all the hype about the stocker OPG's/CS's being shit, and well - since it's a manual car believed it would be good insurance especially since the upper RPM range is where that tachometer would be moving the fastest.

The shop where I had my work done is well known and respected in my part of the world, so it's really hard to tell if it was installer error or just a weak engine from the get go. Calling around, it seems there's quite a lot of failures associated with aftermarket OPG installs which is surprising.

Can't imagine there are too many enthusiasts in the U.P. Bob.
(I mean, it's truly Truck Country that far north - I have a camp in Grand Marais and I'm also very familiar with the western side) Not too many places nearby to have specialized work done, I'm sure you needed to head south for specialized work!

This is my first go around with this, I do appreciate everyone's input - at least I have some time to think about it with the season over here anyway.

From what I'm seeing / reading here and other places, over 900whp you need to make some pricey upgrades.
 

Jackson1320

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Good Point Jackson1320...

GreenS550, this is my 3'rd Mustang, first time with a Coyote. All three have had FI installed.

Maybe I fell for all the hype about the stocker OPG's/CS's being shit, and well - since it's a manual car believed it would be good insurance especially since the upper RPM range is where that tachometer would be moving the fastest.

The shop where I had my work done is well known and respected in my part of the world, so it's really hard to tell if it was installer error or just a weak engine from the get go. Calling around, it seems there's quite a lot of failures associated with aftermarket OPG installs which is surprising.

Can't imagine there are too many enthusiasts in the U.P. Bob.
(I mean, it's truly Truck Country that far north - I have a camp in Grand Marais and I'm also very familiar with the western side) Not too many places nearby to have specialized work done, I'm sure you needed to head south for specialized work!

This is my first go around with this, I do appreciate everyone's input - at least I have some time to think about it with the season over here anyway.

From what I'm seeing / reading here and other places, over 900whp you need to make some pricey upgrades.
You can get a new short block and Mahle power pack drop in piston kit for around $2700 and be comfortable around 1k whp. That’s pretty good because the parts are about $2500
 

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I'd like to add that there's this persistent myth or misrepresentation out there when cars make big power on "stock" motors. Many times, it's done with a huge correction factor (meaning the motor didn't actually make that amount of power and torque, but it WOULD have made that much power and torque under standardized conditions).

The REAL loads on a motor under way less than ideal conditions is MUCH less, than the loads on a motor running at SAE STP and humidity.

The corrected number might be 1000 hp and 750 ft-lbs of torque, but that's not what the motor is actually feeling in many cases.
 
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