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Because if you buy a sports car with an automatic, you deserve to sufferJasonCammisa , 2021

troverman

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I love setting points with a matchbook and screwdriver, timing with a with a strobe, re-jetting a quad 4bbl, etc...

Kids these days have to spend thousands to dial in their cars with magic software "tunes" no one really understands.
"Widespread" love. There will always be hobbyists. The manual transmission has widespread love. People buy less of them because outside of sports cars they tend to be offered in cheap econoboxes or in configurations nobody wants (i.e. 2WD, 4-cylinder Chevy Colorado before even that was phased out...)
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Strokerswild

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So how do you all feel about loosing contact point distributors, setting up spark curves and point dwells, changing plug wires, rebuilding/re-jetting carburetors?
I still have a sort of love for all of those things, and still know how to do all of it because I have to. And it's becoming a lost art.

But, even though I'm a manual trans stalwart, all signs point to my next performance car being an automatic of some sort. Because intermittent temperamental clutch knee.
 

troverman

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I know lots of people that, even if they didn't necessarily consider it fun, felt it was important to have the ability to make those adjustments, both to feel that they were in control of the process, and because it was something they could adjust and not need some kind of computer interface to mess with. They also felt it was something they could fix themselves, and could save money.
Nothing wrong with that. I agree. Part of what forced this style of engine control to disappear were government emissions mandates, and CAFE requirements. At this time, nothing is forcing the hand of manufacturers not to offer a manual. And there is no reason "progress" cannot exist right alongside nostalgic pleasure, in this case. Would it have been so hard to offer a GT500 manual, along with the DCT? Or a Corvette manual along with their automatic?
 

Sivi70980

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Why should auto makers keep making something no one wants just because a miniscule number of drivers want a MT? Why should they consider moving things at a certain pace to accommodate a small fraction of customers?
Is it less people that want it or less MT offered? If the lot only has autos in the higher trim levels, people tend to settle just like with color or other options they may want vs need. Why is a certain song played over and over on the radio? It's usually not because it's good. There is a point where things are force fed to consumers and that's the issue I have. I want more options, not less, when it comes to something like a car that we spend a bigger portion of our lives in.
 

Robottrainer

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I don't think I can agree with this last statement, because fun is subjective. Except for joking around, I don't care what people drive and I can admit that the automatic transmission cars are faster, handle more horsepower, etc... but they're just not any fun for me. Hell, I bought an '18 over a '19 because I wanted to do my own rev matching downshifts. Maybe I'm a masochist, but that's what works for me.

Except for a beater pickup, I've owned one automatic transmission vehicle in my life. I didn't hate it really... I just didn't care about it at all. That part was kinda liberating because I would just leave it in a parking garage or toss the keys to a valet and never care whether that car was seen again. It's not that it was bad... it was a perfectly adequate, reliable car. It just wasn't any fun and the transmission was a major part of that.
I was just merely pointing out that some feel the soul of a car relies on it being a manual when there are so many factors. I'm sure a stick car with 150hp and mushy suspension and brakes probably would meet the soul criteria.
 

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Bikeman315

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I don't think I can agree with this last statement, because fun is subjective.
I agree 100%. But that also applies to "soul" The "automatic cars have no soul" comment is a ridiculous statement. I had cars with both types of transmissions. Some had soul, some didn't. Had nothing to do with the transmission.
 

Robottrainer

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I know lots of people that, even if they didn't necessarily consider it fun, felt it was important to have the ability to make those adjustments, both to feel that they were in control of the process, and because it was something they could adjust and not need some kind of computer interface to mess with. They also felt it was something they could fix themselves, and could save money.
Its all part of progress. In the 70s stick was the way to go. The automatics were terrible. Now the autos have come such a long way that things have reversed, however, its always subjective and it doesnt diminish the "soul" or "fun", but that too, I guess is subjective.
 

Meatball

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I do not think anyone here would disagree with you on this. Unfortunately, and you know this, the world doesn't work like that. Technology only goes in one direction. So you either follow or get out of the way. The good news is that, hopefully, we have good memories of the things that we have lost.
I don’t mean to pick on you specifically about this, but Im curious about how folks here are you going to feel when their Mustang is an all-electric transportation module with self driving and maybe optional fake “vroom” noises (that’s the Mustang part) when they tell the nav module to proceed to destination before they take a nap. It’s the unavoidable March of Progress. So’s the electric, transmissionless SUV that is currently masquerading as a Mustang. I don’t disagree with you but I don’t like it. Maybe I’m getting crusty.

I’m just going to enjoy my knuckle-dragging, manual transmission, supercharged V8 gas burner while I can and hope manuals live as long as Mustangs burn fuel.
 

Arthonon

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Nothing wrong with that. I agree. Part of what forced this style of engine control to disappear were government emissions mandates, and CAFE requirements. At this time, nothing is forcing the hand of manufacturers not to offer a manual. And there is no reason "progress" cannot exist right alongside nostalgic pleasure, in this case. Would it have been so hard to offer a GT500 manual, along with the DCT? Or a Corvette manual along with their automatic?
Well, they didn't do it, so apparently so :).

But seriously, there are reasons why they didn't do it. It's a separate engineering track, a separate sourcing and purchasing track, and potential issues with meeting government requirements, all of which have substantial cost impact. They would have to know that they would have those costs covered, and it is becoming more difficult for that to happen as the DCTs and autos get better.
 

Bikeman315

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I don’t mean to pick on you specifically about this, but Im curious about how folks here are you going to feel when their Mustang is an all-electric transportation module with self driving and maybe optional fake “vroom” noises (that’s the Mustang part) when they tell the nav module to proceed to destination before they take a nap. It’s the unavoidable March of Progress. So’s the electric, transmissionless SUV that is currently masquerading as a Mustang. I don’t disagree with you but I don’t like it. Maybe I’m getting crusty.

I’m just going to enjoy my knuckle-dragging, manual transmission, supercharged V8 gas burner while I can and hope manuals live as long as Mustangs burn fuel.
Like everyone else, I'll have to deal with it. I won't like it but if I have no choice, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I bought my current GT/CS because I wanted my last great American V8. I plan on keeping it for at least ten years. That's also my reason for the A10 (bad knee). I'll be 77 at that point and I'll see what is available in 2029. Hopefully there will still be a V8.
 

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Zooks527

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I love setting points with a matchbook and screwdriver, timing with a with a strobe, re-jetting a quad 4bbl, etc...
On my first car, the plug gap was settable using one of the matches inside the matchbook cover you were using to gap the points.
 

Performance nut

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My evolution was simple. Raced with a TH350, hated it. Drove a ZF6 (my second manual car), loved it until I drove through LA twice and downtown San Francisco in rush hour. Awesomeness wore off very quickly. Said I would never own a manual again unless it was 100% track car. So far, I have yet to own a 100% track car, I regret nothing.
 

CJJon

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Why does Jeep build the Wrangler when all its other SUVs are unibody crossovers with fully independent suspension? For credibility in the off-road world, and for a link to the past.

Maybe you don't think it, but true enthusiasts like manuals.
You look at the prices of Wranglers lately? $80K for a Jeep! They make them to make money. If they didn't, they would not sell them.

Yeah, I guess I am not a true enthusiast then for driving an A10. Guffaw!
 

CJJon

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Is it less people that want it or less MT offered? If the lot only has autos in the higher trim levels, people tend to settle just like with color or other options they may want vs need. Why is a certain song played over and over on the radio? It's usually not because it's good. There is a point where things are force fed to consumers and that's the issue I have. I want more options, not less, when it comes to something like a car that we spend a bigger portion of our lives in.
Less people want it and less people know how to drive manual. Manual trans GT's sit on the lots out here much longer than AT. Ford isn't that dumb, if there was such a demand for MT cars they would build them. Fact is, dealers don't want them because they are harder to sell. (Well, before then pandemic that is).
 

RedTetsu13

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Coming from someone who has learned manual on a Friend's '16 GT, and having worked as a car porter being exposed to multiple manual transmissions, unless you have money for the GT350 or the new Mach1, I echo Matt Farah's thoughts of owning a manual transmission mustang. Don't do it unless you have money for a Tremec swap. Even with the upgraded manual tranmission that I test drove earlier this year which supposedly fixed most of the issues of the MT-82, I still found myself fighting with the transmission. If you are fighting the car on the main shifts (2nd to 3rd, and 4th to 3rd argueably where you'd spend the most time for city driving), can you argue its more fun and more connected. If Ford had put a Tremec unit in the S550 in the first place, or even a better Getrag unit I'm sure there would have been more demand for the manual trans. I literally opted not to buy the manual because of this. Most of my enthusiast friends I talk to even say that they would rather spend there money on an 86/BRZ or Miata which has a much better transmission to shift.
But it also seems the majority of people backing this thread have V8's from what I can see so what do I know when I'm in the I4 Turbo camp because Ford couldn't build the I6TT that I wanted to see. :crackup:
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