Because if you buy a sports car with an automatic, you deserve to sufferJasonCammisa , 2021

[edco]

Yep it is hilarious, I think some members post the Auto vs manual or is it Manual vs auto topic just to get a rise out of other members. Personally I think it's bad-ass that you can get a Coyote w/a 10-spd auto that hauls the mail.
I drive a stick, who cares, get what pleases you and work on making your particular platform quicker. That's my moto.
Hail to all auto drivers, hail to all manual drivers...

There you go trying to settle it.
Can't you see we are busy being stupid!

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[moose13]

My evolution was simple. Raced with a TH350, hated it. Drove a ZF6 (my second manual car), loved it until I drove through LA twice and downtown San Francisco in rush hour. Awesomeness wore off very quickly. Said I would never own a manual again unless it was 100% track car. So far, I have yet to own a 100% track car, I regret nothing.

This seems a tad extreme. There's a lot of space between something you daily in Cali traffic and a 100% track car. Stop and go can be an absolute pain in the ass with a manual, but I think you'd view it as worth it if you didn't do it all the time. Personally, about 15% of my daily commute (which is about 45 minutes each way) is stop and go. The other 85% (and the weekends) make that 15% worth it.

 

[Sivi70980]

This seems a tad extreme. There's a lot of space between something you daily in Cali traffic and a 100% track car. Stop and go can be an absolute pain in the ass with a manual, but I think you'd view it as worth it if you didn't do it all the time. Personally, about 15% of my daily commute (which is about 45 minutes each way) is stop and go. The other 85% (and the weekends) make that 15% worth it.

Stop and go sucks in any vehicle.

Most new cars to include our mustangs are stupid easy to drive in manual form and the traffic argument is trivial at best. Of course I've never had leg issues so I can't speak to that at all.

 

[troverman]

At the point we are now this could be true. I still argue that most manuals on a given lot will be a less desirable trim level though. Force feeding has been going on since dirt was invented. When I test drove both A10 and M6 cars, the auto was readily available fully loaded while the manual was bare bones. At the time, the lot didn’t have a non bare bones manual at all. I remember years ago the manuals on lots were also the cars that still had window cranks. I’m very confident if the lots had loaded manuals and bare bones autos, take rates would change.

In fairness, a "base" Mustang GT is pretty well equipped. Full LED lighting on the exterior (except the reverse light, lol) is something you don't get when buying a $70k Ford F-250 Lariat diesel. Auto dimming rearview mirror is standard (you can't get this on a $65k F-250 XLT diesel); the 4.2" color LCD display between the analog gauges is nicer than what comes on any of the Ford XL-trim trucks. And there are more features as well.

As for the 747 vs open cockpit plane, that's not a fair analogy. You are comparing aircraft many years apart with all things being modern vs antiquated. A manual Mustang is still wrapped around the same nice interior and suspension and engine.

 

[troverman]

At the time of my search there were few cars in my price range, I didn't do a lot of research outside of finding general info about class action lawsuits between both the 10R80 and the MT-82 didn't read the specifics. Maybe you got lucky but out of the 3 test drives with the manuals I found lying around all three of them more or less fought with me going into 3rd gear. As much as I would love to drive at redline, all the time. My wallet wouldn't be able to keep up with the cost for gas like that and I don't track my car (yet, haven't decided whether to autox or track). Shifting was done roughly around 3-5 rpm depending on the vehicle if I remember right (note this was like 7 months ago). When it comes to finding reviews of the manual I don't think I've read a bad one either everyone either doesn't comment on it or the praise it like crazy. Then again I spent more time looking at 2.3T vs 5.0 threads more than transmission threads, at least till after my purchase.

Interesting. Were these cars you tried out new or used? My car shifts like butter...maybe I did get lucky. I've done a couple of near-redline shifts from 1st to 2nd, and it takes more skill to make those shifts smoothly. I've never tried that at those RPMs from 2nd to 3rd because I'd be going way too fast. But normal shifts (3k - 4k or so for me) are very smooth into 3rd.

 

[RedTetsu13]

Interesting. Were these cars you tried out new or used? My car shifts like butter...maybe I did get lucky. I've done a couple of near-redline shifts from 1st to 2nd, and it takes more skill to make those shifts smoothly. I've never tried that at those RPMs from 2nd to 3rd because I'd be going way too fast. But normal shifts (3k - 4k or so for me) are very smooth into 3rd.

They were all brand new, I wasn't doing anything like powershifting, albeit based on my experience I am far from what you would called a good manual driver (probably would place myself in the average bucket). That said I am aware that manufacturing does have a big influence on whether or not you get a good unit as I've seen people break the stock transmission literally doing nothing and I've seen people also modify the snot out their car with the stock transmission and not have a single worry (my friend who taught me). That said maybe I'm sensitive to the minute differences as I still compare the 10R80 to the ZF 8 Speed in my memory from when I was a porter and I notice the differences b/w those two extremes as well. But then again, when it comes to luck, I have extremely shitty luck so it probably was more so that there were issues with those transmissions I test drove. Or maybe they just needed to be broken in more...

 

[Sivi70980]

Interesting. Were these cars you tried out new or used? My car shifts like butter...maybe I did get lucky. I've done a couple of near-redline shifts from 1st to 2nd, and it takes more skill to make those shifts smoothly. I've never tried that at those RPMs from 2nd to 3rd because I'd be going way too fast. But normal shifts (3k - 4k or so for me) are very smooth into 3rd.

It's a perfectly fine transmission for normal and spirited driving. IMO complaints come from track driving or people that really don't know how to drive a manual and most track people shift just fine without complaints too.

 

[Sivi70980]

In fairness, a "base" Mustang GT is pretty well equipped. Full LED lighting on the exterior (except the reverse light, lol) is something you don't get when buying a $70k Ford F-250 Lariat diesel. Auto dimming rearview mirror is standard (you can't get this on a $65k F-250 XLT diesel); the 4.2" color LCD display between the analog gauges is nicer than what comes on any of the Ford XL-trim trucks. And there are more features as well.

As for the 747 vs open cockpit plane, that's not a fair analogy. You are comparing aircraft many years apart with all things being modern vs antiquated. A manual Mustang is still wrapped around the same nice interior and suspension and engine.

I'm saying the auto GT's are usually better equipped that the manual GT's on the lot.

Can't decipher what you're getting at with the planes and many years differences. I wasn't or at least trying not to compare vehicles of different generations. Same year vehicles on lots have generally been pushing better trims on autos for years. I'm not the first in this thread to have said as much.

 

[Performance nut]

This seems a tad extreme. There's a lot of space between something you daily in Cali traffic and a 100% track car. Stop and go can be an absolute pain in the ass with a manual, but I think you'd view it as worth it if you didn't do it all the time. Personally, about 15% of my daily commute (which is about 45 minutes each way) is stop and go. The other 85% (and the weekends) make that 15% worth it.

Mine has always been more than 15%... most often 50% or more stop and go. On more than one occasion I have been grateful I didn't have a stick. Only once did I miss having a stick but was over it quickly when I went to paddle mode.

Though I'm glad there are folks who still enjoy manual. For me,, its a PITA that eventually makes me hate driving a car. It gets double annoying when manual owners dog the auto guys. Its like bragging that you can take more groin kicks than anyone else and the rest of us say "pass". Being a glutton for punishment doesn't make you cool, just means your a glutton for punishment.

 

[Sivi70980]

It gets double annoying when manual owners dog the auto guys. Its like bragging that you can take more groin kicks than anyone else and the rest of us say "pass". Being a glutton for punishment doesn't make you cool, just means your a glutton for punishment.

Apologies if any of my replies come across that way. Never once has stop/go traffic in a manual been punishment though. To me, it doesn't matter what vehicle you're in, traffic sucks. We all have our preferences and I'm glad you found yours as I have mine.

 

[Bikeman315]

Mine has always been more than 15%... most often 50% or more stop and go. On more than one occasion I have been grateful I didn't have a stick. Only once did I miss having a stick but was over it quickly when I went to paddle mode.

Though I'm glad there are folks who still enjoy manual. For me,, its a PITA that eventually makes me hate driving a car. It gets double annoying when manual owners dog the auto guys. Its like bragging that you can take more groin kicks than anyone else and the rest of us say "pass". Being a glutton for punishment doesn't make you cool, just means your a glutton for punishment.

Well PN some of the folks on here are both gluttons for punishment and cool.

 

[Performance nut]

Apologies if any of my replies come across that way. Never once has stop/go traffic in a manual been punishment though. To me, it doesn't matter what vehicle you're in, traffic sucks. We all have our preferences and I'm glad you found yours as I have mine.

Nah, you are one that is like me: lives with their choice and actually enjoys it rather than seeing it as a burden or missing out on something.

Well PN some of the folks on here are both gluttons for punishment and cool.

We are all superman in our mind.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Stop and go can be an absolute pain in the ass with a manual.

Stop and go traffic is a PITA no matter what kind of transmission lives behind the engine.

I learned that 55 years ago when the only cars available to me were automatics.

I've since found that having to do a little more can take some of the sting out of driving in that kind of traffic. You just have to let it.


Norm

 

[Maglin]

Stop and Go traffic on a car with a VERY Heavy single disc pressure plate clutch is literal hell on the left leg. Forget leg day, because at that point you have to go to the gym just so you can make your right leg the same.

I had to answer the original post. "I'm glad I didn't buy a sports car then!" I have an A10 Mustang GT not a Ford GT.

I used to be all about grabbing gears, but after 25 years of dealing with coffee spilling on my pants/legs because of a sudden gear change or better yet because FOX BODY PROBLEMS the only viable cup holder is between your legs. Smoking driving a manual sucks for the radio, center console, door panels. Drag racing a manual vs. an auto your always at a disadvantage (unless it's a DSG in which case they are usually faster than an auto). OH number one. The cost of owning a manual is so much higher than an Auto. Take my fox body. It makes about 600 HP and destroys T5s. It goes through Tremic 3550's but at a much lower rate. Then if you actually drag race there is a clutch you need to replace quite often. The auto guys only have to spend like $5k on their setup and it's usually good for a year. Manual guys are almost double that and it's probably not good for the entire year. Wrap all this up along with 25 years of driving and auto's for me are the only way to go.

All that being said. I'll never call someone a "Moron" for driving what they want to (manual or auto). Only for making dumb decisions like driving on completely unsafe (tires, brakes, worn out/ broken suspension parts etc.) I hope everyone just enjoys what they have and can stop being demeaning to others that don't share their opinion. I'm not sure what it's called today but it used to just be bulling but it's so common place today it's just considered conversing I guess.

 

[Sivi70980]

I've since found that having to do a little more can take some of the sting out of driving in that kind of traffic. You just have to let it.


Norm

Agree. Also I like cruising in a gear at Xmph with like 10 car lengths in front of me and watch other people go insane to get around me.

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