Beating a dead horse; aftermarket CAI

[Zelek]

I think that ford has figured out an equivalent efficient air intake as the aftermarket. It’s definitely a cheaper way to make more power for ford compared to other items, just like to us.

I think throttle body and cai is efficient enough, kinda thing. If you breath through a straw, it takes extra energy. If the diameter is large (efficient) enough making it larger won’t help anything because you can’t Ingest anymore air, no matter how little resistance the tube has.

I think the 18 intake manifold (cj and as well) is slightly more efficient (10whp or so) but more importantly shifts the power band to the right. That’s where you’re actually gaining.

I think stock intakes across the board for many manufacturers have improved drastically. It's nothing like the late 90's modding where it was a super restrictive air box. Just looking at the air duct passage in the Mustang and the way they have it set up is highly optimal. Now if only they would have taken it a step further and implemented the Velossatech to grab even more air from the grill.

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[BmacIL]

I think that ford has figured out an equivalent efficient air intake as the aftermarket. It’s definitely a cheaper way to make more power for ford compared to other items, just like to us.

I think throttle body and cai is efficient enough, kinda thing. If you breath through a straw, it takes extra energy. If the diameter is large (efficient) enough making it larger won’t help anything because you can’t Ingest anymore air, no matter how little resistance the tube has.

I think the 18 intake manifold (cj and as well) is slightly more efficient (10whp or so) but more importantly shifts the power band to the right. That’s where you’re actually gaining.

Ford seems to have learned from what the aftermarket used to do. Look at their exhaust manifolds. They are pretty god damn good for factory. I have long tubes but I bet they really don’t make much more of a difference as just removing the cats. As manufacturers get better, all we will have is adding power adders, removing emissions and things that wear (tires and fuel as an example). Every generation of cars has less and less bolts on parts that make a difference outside of that.

The stock airbox is a quite good factory airbox for a mass-production, emissions-certified car. Can it be improved upon? Absolutely. The GT350 wouldn't have the intake it does if it didn't improve performance. The Power Pack 2 and 3 wouldn't have that same intake, either. People always forget that the OEM has to manage tens or hundreds of vehicle attribute targets (fuel efficiency, power, drivability, emissions, transient response, IAT rise over ambient, NVH, COST, weight, etc) and many of them are compromises with each other. The OEM airbox is what Ford believed to be the best overall box of all those attributes. Stepping up to a GT350 or aftermarket intake means you're ok with forgoing one or more of those attributes in favor of others.

 

[Bluemustang]

OK, if CAIs are not bringing in more airflow vs. Stock, then explain how my datalog shows 2-3 more lb/min versus the stock intake? 41-42 vs 44-45 stock box vs JLT. And then 44-45 vs 49-50 maf lb/min- stock manifold/JLT and ported 18 manifold/JLT, respectively? That's no insignificant change.

That is actual data from the log of my car on the street with the hood closed. All these little differences that dont seem to matter, well they add up.

 

[Furious18]

The stock airbox is a quite good factory airbox for a mass-production, emissions-certified car. Can it be improved upon? Absolutely. The GT350 wouldn't have the intake it does if it didn't improve performance. The Power Pack 2 and 3 wouldn't have that same intake, either. People always forget that the OEM has to manage tens or hundreds of vehicle attribute targets (fuel efficiency, power, drivability, emissions, transient response, IAT rise over ambient, NVH, COST, weight, etc) and many of them are compromises with each other. The OEM airbox is what Ford believed to be the best overall box of all those attributes. Stepping up to a GT350 or aftermarket intake means you're ok with forgoing one or more of those attributes in favor of others.

Definitely. the bullit supposedly makes a bit more with it as well but it may just be the tune. It may just look sexier with no hp gain on their specialty vehicles. I’ve never seen a tuned vs tuned cai graph if anyone knows of one from same day/dyno/car.. especially with hood closed. Lund has mentioned they went a 100th faster with the filter out

 

[BmacIL]

Definitely. the bullit supposedly makes a bit more with it as well but it may just be the tune. It may just look sexier with no hp gain on their specialty vehicles. I’ve never seen a tuned vs tuned cai graph if anyone knows of one from same day/dyno/car.. especially with hood closed. Lund has mentioned they went a 100th faster with the filter out

The box on the Bullitt makes a small difference, yes. It's rated quite accurately whereas the stock 18 GT is underrated some. The real world gap is tiny, manual 18 GT PP to 19 Bullitt. The Bullitt could be much more powerful if they had wanted to spend the money on a set of cams that takes advantage of the GT350 manifold rpm range. As they didn't, the Bullitt has the same redline as an 18 GT and makes no more power from the manifold. That aspect of it is pure marketing lure.

 

[Furious18]

Let me say this. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I want to know the answers too. I’m from a different manufacturers car world. I’ve been apart of many car forums throughout my life and they’ve all had some ideas that were formed in an echo chamber.

A lot of times we see a car go fast with a part list and we assume each part helped. That’s not always true.

I tuned very different cars then the coyote so I can’t pretend to be some expert but the guys that see the most data dont seem to think they help. Maybe the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze per dollar. I also know a guy like Alex has to be pretty careful when the company he works for combines a tune with an intake.

 

[Bluemustang]

The box on the Bullitt makes a small difference, yes. It's rated quite accurately whereas the stock 18 GT is underrated some. The real world gap is tiny, manual 18 GT PP to 19 Bullitt. The Bullitt could be much more powerful if they had wanted to spend the money on a set of cams that takes advantage of the GT350 manifold rpm range. As they didn't, the Bullitt has the same redline as an 18 GT and makes no more power from the manifold. That aspect of it is pure marketing lure.

Very good point here about the cams. You've mentioned to me that the stock 15-17 cams fit well with the 18 manifold. GT350 or CJ manifold it might make sense to optimize the cams for rev range of these manifolds (i.e. up to 8k rpm or beyond), probably moreso with the CJ than the 350.

 

[BmacIL]

Let me say this. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I want to know the answers too. I’m from a different manufacturers car world. I’ve been apart of many car forums throughout my life and they’ve all had some ideas that were formed in an echo chamber.

A lot of times we see a car go fast with a part list and we assume each part helped. That’s not always true.

I tuned very different cars then the coyote so I can’t pretend to be some expert but the guys that see the most data dont seem to think they help. Maybe the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze per dollar. I also know a guy like Alex has to be pretty careful when the company he works for combines a tune with an intake.

The worth it part really depends on how you're using the car. If you're keeping the stock manifold, I'd say it's questionable, and something like the aFE drop-in filter and Mishimoto induction tube is your best bet. Once you start down the path of making more high RPM power, the stock setup's limitations shine through. The typical big cone filter has good filtration efficiency and a lot more surface area than the panel filter from which to pull air through. Also, a radial pull of air into the inlet is more efficient than the bulk of air turning a 90 deg corner and will result in even higher mass flows at high RPM (like a bell mouth on ITB race engines). This info isn't coming from echo chambers, and Alex himself has pushed PMAS and JLT before for folks chasing max power. At the same time, that max power setup isn't best for everyone and some of the negatives are large enough to disqualify them, depending on the usage (DD in Houston or Phoenix heat, for instance).

 

[shogun32]

I can't believe no one has done a JLT style 120MM closed box intake

Isn't the Steeda solution what you're looking for? (or close enough)

 

[BmacIL]

Isn't the Steeda solution what you're looking for? (or close enough)

That one unfortunately places the MAF sensor too close to the filter and the resulting turbulence is too much to do a flex fuel tune.

 

[Zelek]

Isn't the Steeda solution what you're looking for? (or close enough)

I was really hoping. I sold mine to another Texas local here to me is enjoying it now on his 2018. It's a beast on straight tunes.

 

[AZ18yote]

I was really hoping. I sold mine to another Texas local here to me is enjoying it now on his 2018. It's a beast on straight tunes.

Agreed. I sold mine to another member who didn't have any need or intention of running a flex tune. In theory would have been the best of both worlds had it been capable of working effectively on flex.

 

[TJP719]

Regarding the CAI, do you have to purchase the 2018 year model? Was wondering since I have a ‘16.

Are there any other model CAIs compatible to the ‘18 manifold?

 

[Zelek]

Regarding the CAI, do you have to purchase the 2018 year model? Was wondering since I have a ‘16.

Are there any other model CAIs compatible to the ‘18 manifold?

The 2018 models have a coupling that fits better since it's more angled.

The JLT is 120 mm on the 18 version instead of 110 mm on the 15-17.

The 15-17 ones can fit, but you have to push down on them a bit.

 

[Loki-GT]

I installed the Demolet CAI for my 2006 Mustang GT when I bought it new, the car went from a 13.7 to a 13.4 on average so was it worth the money, was it worth buying, no, because I went Centrifugal soon after but you could definitely tell it helped even without going to the track.

For my 2018 A10 GT I got the Closed CAI from Steeda with the Lund 93/Flex/E85 tunes, I can definitely tell a difference but won't know for sure until I get to the track. I can't find E85 to save my life to install and log the Flex/E85 tunes so I hope to do that this week when I find it. A tune with the stock air intake would probably get close but the MAF volume is 120mm with this CAI so I won't be using Flex, only 93 and E85, we'll see how she does.

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