Autocross/daily driver questions

[Trophy Hunter]

The Steeda dual rates are awesome for sport use but the ride frequency is bouncy on the street with cheaper adjustable shocks. You really want a good monotube shock to tame spring rates like these. I had instant regrets in daily use the first days after mounting them but I don’t really think about it anymore. On course, and paired with the right swaybars and camber, they’re amazing. I would do it again, but I was ready for an aggressively sporty ride. The minimal drop is perfect for handling.

NightmareMoon ..... just trying to pick your brain, as the poster might want to know as well:
What made you go to the dual rate ?
Way back in the early 2000's (dating myself here) I was using linear in ESP, but on a Camaro. My thought is that the dual would upset the your balance (unless you put alot of dependance on the shock) once you "hit" the rate change (so to speak) - but I've looked over some of your runs and you have what appears to be a very smooth but aggressive driving style (I drive this way myself) ........ so I am wanting to get clarity as to what helps provent this "shock" to the balance - are you using the shocks to "temper" the transition (as well as the bars) and that works better for you, or this car/chassis ?

Thanks for any input

 

[shogun32]

I bought into the steeda marketing about the Dr being well regarded by many of their amateur racing customers. On the track they may be brilliant but street use is definitely an acquired taste.

For street use there is precious little travel before you hit the high rate. But if you damp for the high rates your experience suffers even more on the street.

Unless your car is primarily a track car, circuit or autox, I would recommend against. That said I've put like 12000 street miles on the DR and I don't shy away from driving it. I just wouldn't do it again unless race car.

 

[Trophy Hunter]

Thanks Shogun32 ....... and while that may affect the OP decision, I have no problems what-so-ever with a DD car that is a little, shall we say, "challenging" = dealt with an aluminium flywheel (on a 3300 lb + car) and other not necessarily "friendly" components with my ESP DD....... but in all fairness it was a DD by choice and not necessity. Its all up to much you're willing to accept for your daily to be more competitive in the sport - just hoping that CAM-C doesn't get too crazy

 

[TeeLew]

None of the stock-type springs I'm aware of have enough front stiffness for my tastes. Most of them have entirely too much rear. The only one I'd touch is the Ford Performance ones and it seems as if they may have changed them at some point so there's no drop?

I run a 450# linear spring on the front and 750# on the back, which I'm going to reduce. Few believe me, but a stiffer front spring does not increase understeer.

 

[Bulldog9]

I've got nothing here, no thoughts or experience or consideration of Auto Crossing my S550 Bullitt...... The car is incredibly fast and stable and I was impressed with my highly illegal Dragon Tail runs last summer, but this car seems to big and heavy to be a real AC beast. I used to autocross a LOT in Saabs (C-900) and VW GTI's back in the 80's and early 90s. Cars were 2/3 the weight and size. My Saabs were highly modified beasts with 50/50 weight distribution and modified suspensions and still DD's. Some of the best driving was in those cars..... Makes me miss it.

 

[bnightstar]

None of the stock-type springs I'm aware of have enough front stiffness for my tastes. Most of them have entirely too much rear. The only one I'd touch is the Ford Performance ones and it seems as if they may have changed them at some point so there's no drop?

I run a 450# linear spring on the front and 750# on the back, which I'm going to reduce. Few believe me, but a stiffer front spring does not increase understeer.

The problem with the DR springs from steeda is not the front rate 350# firm is the rear rate of 1200# rear this is a lot for the OEM Shocks and you need something like at least Pro-Shocks Adjustable to be able to handle it. I also think this will not work with Ford Performance Track Shocks as they are for 980# springs. So the only way you can make the DR works is with the Pro-Shocks and you will also need Sways to finally dial the balance of the car to be able to not oversteer like crazy on corner exits. I think somewhere in the threads Steeda techs posted the full recipe for the DR's to work. 1200# on the street surely will not be fun though.

Also Nightmare is running coilovers with 650# front springs so for him the 1200# of the DR springs is the best option as the 1200# rear is the right rear rate for 650# front to get a good balance out of the car.

 

[NightmareMoon]

NightmareMoon ..... just trying to pick your brain, as the poster might want to know as well:
What made you go to the dual rate ?
Way back in the early 2000's (dating myself here) I was using linear in ESP, but on a Camaro. My thought is that the dual would upset the your balance (unless you put alot of dependance on the shock) once you "hit" the rate change (so to speak) - but I've looked over some of your runs and you have what appears to be a very smooth but aggressive driving style (I drive this way myself) ........ so I am wanting to get clarity as to what helps provent this "shock" to the balance - are you using the shocks to "temper" the transition (as well as the bars) and that works better for you, or this car/chassis ?

Thanks for any input

when I went to the dual rates, they were simply the stiffest rates I could get from any manufacturer with a conventional spring perch on the shock design. I already had adjustable Konis so switching to the DRs was cheap and easy. I set my swaybars to dial for neutral handling. Driving them the paper theories about what the dual rate design would or wouldn’t feel lik, well lets just say it drove just fine.

i did find them to be very fun and pretty balanced for track/autox, with satisfactory dampeningfrom the Konis for autox/track at the time. However thr street ride was busy and annoying

As mentioned i did switch to better shocks however once the budget allowed w/ front coilovers with even higher 650# spring rates. People recommended >500# springs so I wanted to try. The front rates aredefinitely better for what I’m doing, and maybe too stiff. I drove a friends car with the same coilovers and just a 500# front spring and it gripped harder on low grip sites.

for autox, I need a little low speed corner entry rotation so the differences between F/R spring rates before and after I made the front coilover change was within the range I can tune with adjustable shocks and swaybars..

My coils were sent off for a rebuild so the full koni/DR setup is back on the car right now (temporarily). Its fine. Rear kicks out slightly sooner maybe, but that checks out.

 

[Trophy Hunter]

Thanks for the responses .........
Looking to "throw my hat in the ring" later this year in CAM-C, once we've taken care of our move and the "boss" gives me the green light to pull the trigger on my next build, so the info is appreciated