August 2016 Mustang Sales - 8,299

[MustangS550]

Their heritage is one of playing follow the leader while getting styling all wrong.

Only a clean sheet and a clear new direction will save the Camaro.

Their sales numbers reflect this. At this rate, it will be very scary to see their sales numbers a year from now.

Not very many people want a "I'm a Mustang copycat," "look I just had a 50 year anniversary too" car.

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[ElAviator72]

Interesting read:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/08/what-chevrolet-says-about-slipping-sixth-gen-camaro-sales/

In a nutshell, GM does not acknowledge that lowers Gen6 Camaro sales are part of some grand master plan and they are not happy with being behind the Mustang in that department.

The only reason the previous gen Camaro was able to take the sales lead over the S197 Mustang is that it was a better car. Ford should have bit the bullet and developed the IRS for the S197... (the engineers left room in the chassis for it!).

Now, GM has a car that not only looks too much like the last one (despite being new from the ground up), but is also fairly expensive compared to the 'stang, and sucks from a human factors standpoint (try seeing out of a new Camaro and you'll know what I mean!). Maybe GM was trying to save a penny or two by basing it off the same chassis as a Caddy? It is obvious when you look at how the car is priced... penny wise and pound foolish ;)

 

[TexArmageddon]

The only reason the previous gen Camaro was able to take the sales lead over the S197 Mustang is that it was a better car. Ford should have bit the bullet and developed the IRS for the S197... (the engineers left room in the chassis for it!).

Now, GM has a car that not only looks too much like the last one (despite being new from the ground up), but is also fairly expensive compared to the 'stang, and sucks from a human factors standpoint (try seeing out of a new Camaro and you'll know what I mean!). Maybe GM was trying to save a penny or two by basing it off the same chassis as a Caddy? It is obvious when you look at how the car is priced... penny wise and pound foolish ;)

You can't honestly thing IRS would have saved the stang?.... Smdh...

 

[Five Oh Brian]

I'm amused that we all dislike the Camaro so much here. Reading through all of the posts I've realized that most of us appreciate the Challenger, though, as we know it's not really a "pony car" as much as it's a musclecar since it's bigger and proud of it.

I've owned a bunch of Mustangs over the year, and I still own my '14 GT (that I'll NEVER sell willingly), but I'm one of the 5,262 people who bought a new Challenger last month. It's a '16 Scat Pack with the 485hp 6.4L Hemi and 8 speed automatic. Absolutely love the Scat Pack, but for different reasons than my Mustang. The Scat Pack reminds me of my '68 Pontiac GTO with its big block V8 torque and big proportions. My Mustang is a high revving beast that runs the 1/4 mile in the 11.50's. The Scat Pack is my daily driver and it's capable of mid 12's bone stock (low 12's and even high 11's on drag radials).

I love them both....

 

[EcoVert]

The only reason the previous gen Camaro was able to take the sales lead over the S197 Mustang is that it was a better car. Ford should have bit the bullet and developed the IRS for the S197... (the engineers left room in the chassis for it!).

Now, GM has a car that not only looks too much like the last one (despite being new from the ground up), but is also fairly expensive compared to the 'stang, and sucks from a human factors standpoint (try seeing out of a new Camaro and you'll know what I mean!). Maybe GM was trying to save a penny or two by basing it off the same chassis as a Caddy? It is obvious when you look at how the car is priced... penny wise and pound foolish ;)

IRS might have helped but if you look at the sales number camaro never out sold the Mustang 2 to 1 like the Mustang is now doing to the 6g camaro. The last time Mustang out sold camaro 2 to 1 the camaro was cancelled. :ford:

 

[JohnZiraldo]

I'm amused that we all dislike the Camaro so much here. Reading through all of the posts I've realized that most of us appreciate the Challenger, though, as we know it's not really a "pony car" as much as it's a musclecar since it's bigger and proud of it.

I would not say that I dislike the Camaro or its fans. I just find the car unappealing. It doesn't seem to have a natural fit anywhere. It is neither a classic Pony Car nor a classic Muscle Car. It's kind of like that awkward stepchild that doesn't fit in very well and sometimes tries too hard to be liked.

It comes from a family of iconic cars like the Corvette, Chevelle, and GTO, but it has never had an iconic shape or style of its own. Even the Firebird had a more recognizable consistent style.

The Camaro is just a bunch of similar looking parts stuck in slightly different locations and made to look tough. There is nothing classy in it's looks, but its parts can be appealing and catch your eye. I think its most appealing features are the high torque motor that is probably lurking under the hood and its bigger wheels and tires.

Probably what the Camaro needs is for the Cadillac to grow up and be a more mature Luxury car, and the Corvette to step up to a higher end Sports car. This could leave lots of space for the Camaro to find a purpose other than following the Mustang around, reinvent itself, and maybe create something new for the market.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

I'm amused that we all dislike the Camaro so much here. Reading through all of the posts I've realized that most of us appreciate the Challenger, though, as we know it's not really a "pony car" as much as it's a musclecar since it's bigger and proud of it.

I've owned a bunch of Mustangs over the year, and I still own my '14 GT (that I'll NEVER sell willingly), but I'm one of the 5,262 people who bought a new Challenger last month. It's a '16 Scat Pack with the 485hp 6.4L Hemi and 8 speed automatic. Absolutely love the Scat Pack, but for different reasons than my Mustang. The Scat Pack reminds me of my '68 Pontiac GTO with its big block V8 torque and big proportions. My Mustang is a high revving beast that runs the 1/4 mile in the 11.50's. The Scat Pack is my daily driver and it's capable of mid 12's bone stock (low 12's and even high 11's on drag radials).

I love them both....

Great purchase, Brian!! Love the Scat Pack and the color combo you picked!!

I would buy one of these in a heartbeat if I needed a bigger daily driver as they are just perfect for that.

 

[MRGTX]

Playstation people hate Xbox people...Android people hate Apple people.
We can all agree that the Challenger is cool because it's not a threat to our favorite. Until recently, it has been a distant 3rd place.

They each have criticism worthy aspects that the fans of these cars don't care about.

You can't see out of the Camaro and it's expensive
The Mustang is slow and soft and it wheelhops
The Challenger is a landwhale with a decade-old chassis

Honestly, flaws are part of what makes Muscle Cars cool. Overly refined driving machines are boring...we might as well drive Teslas.

The Mustang has tended to favor my preferences...but I have no brand loyalty. I love them all. I'm absolutely keeping an eye out for what happens with the 2018 Mustang and the possibility of a Mach1 package...but the Challenger T/A 392 or Scatpack 392 are absolutely on my list. I've driven several Challengers now and they're just tons of fun, look and sound terrific.

They each have drawbacks that matter or don't depending on your perspective...

 

[JohnZiraldo]

just put him on ignore or he will PM and tell you what is wrong with your life, health, etc.

Done!

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The only reason the previous gen Camaro was able to take the sales lead over the S197 Mustang is that it was a better car. Ford should have bit the bullet and developed the IRS for the S197... (the engineers left room in the chassis for it!).

Now, GM has a car that not only looks too much like the last one (despite being new from the ground up), but is also fairly expensive compared to the 'stang, and sucks from a human factors standpoint (try seeing out of a new Camaro and you'll know what I mean!). Maybe GM was trying to save a penny or two by basing it off the same chassis as a Caddy? It is obvious when you look at how the car is priced... penny wise and pound foolish ;)

The way I look at the 5th gens sale success. If you can't beat a car that's already been out for 5 years. With a brand new design. Designed after the beloved 1969 Camaro. Making it's triumphant return after an 8 year absence. With a big lead in from a major motion picture. You might as well kill the Camaro off once and for all!

 

[1320']

The 5th Gen Camaro was in many ways an ideal blend for the car market of 2009 to late 2013. It had good styling, good pricing, options, equipment and was in a hot development cycle.

The new one...not so much. The S550 set the trend there, and the 6th Gen has choked a bit.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Great purchase, Brian!! Love the Scat Pack and the color combo you picked!!

I would buy one of these in a heartbeat if I needed a bigger daily driver as they are just perfect for that.

Thank you. And I bought the Scat Pack for exactly the reason you cited. Wanted a bigger daily driver that was more comfortable. If Ford made a V8 RWD or AWD Coupe that was slightly bigger than Mustang, I would have been all over it (i.e. Torino, FPV Falcon, etc.). And, the Scat Pack was very affordable ($38K after dealer discount & rebate).

Camaro has never appealed to me. I once owned a 427 Chevy Nova and I owned a 1968 Pontiac GTO for a decade, so I've owned GM's back in the day. Loved the big block torque. Camaro - even with the 396 V8's - never really did anything for me. So bland looking, as others have said.

Dodge has quite a stylish musclecar in the new Challenger. I loved the E-body Challengers back in the early 70's when I was a kid. By the time the new 2008 Challangers hit the market, I had been working at a Ford dealership for 9 years (still working at a Ford dealership to this day, 17+ years total), so it has been difficult to justify buying something non-Ford. But, I kept my Mustang and I have 2 other Fords in my driveway (and we've bought dozens of Fords since working there), so my boss is okay with the non-Ford showing up at our Ford store's employee parking lot.

As brilliant as the 5.0L Coyote is, and as nice as the S197 & S550 platforms are, Challenger is gaining sales momentum (some months beating Camaro) by offering a great range of Hemi's with boatloads of torque - especially in the 6.4L SRT Hemi and the 6.2L Hellcat Hemi and their new 8 speed auto is way better than the 6R80 in my '14 GT that I thought was great. Plus, some of us still love retro styling and the new Challenger is nearly a dead ringer for the 1971 models, while Mustang S550 has evolved into something European looking so as to appeal to a wider audience.

I'm hoping for a really awesome looking Mustang for 2018 or 2019 that tugs at my emotions (i.e. Mach 1), while being affordable. I leased the Scat Pack for 3 years, so that lease is up in mid-2019 and my '14 Mustang will be long paid off by then, so I'll be a prime candidate for another new toy then. It must be a big V8 with RWD or AWD. No little engines with turbos for me. The 10-speed auto that is debuting in the '17 F-150 is going into the Mustang in about a year, so that will be a plus for Ford if it's anywhere as nice as the Mopar 8 speed auto.

These are definitely the "good old days" right now, and many of us are blessed to be able to afford these cool cars. I don't know how much longer the gov't will "allow" musclecars to exist, but I'm going to enjoy every minute of every drive in the mean time!

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Honestly, flaws are part of what makes Muscle Cars cool. Overly refined driving machines are boring...we might as well drive Teslas.

True! Even my '14 GT was a little too sterile when I bought it new. Like most of us here, I made it a little more raw feeling - a little more muscular feeling - by adding off-road exhaust, steeper drag gears, big stall converter, bigger wheels/tires, etc. My wife misses how "smooth" it used to drive, while I love how visceral it is now.

 

[MRGTX]

Thank you. And I bought the Scat Pack for exactly the reason you cited. Wanted a bigger daily driver that was more comfortable. If Ford made a V8 RWD or AWD Coupe that was slightly bigger than Mustang, I would have been all over it (i.e. Torino, FPV Falcon, etc.). And, the Scat Pack was very affordable ($38K after dealer discount & rebate).

Camaro has never appealed to me. I once owned a 427 Chevy Nova and I owned a 1968 Pontiac GTO for a decade, so I've owned GM's back in the day. Loved the big block torque. Camaro - even with the 396 V8's - never really did anything for me. So bland looking, as others have said.

Dodge has quite a stylish musclecar in the new Challenger. I loved the E-body Challengers back in the early 70's when I was a kid. By the time the new 2008 Challangers hit the market, I had been working at a Ford dealership for 9 years (still working at a Ford dealership to this day, 17+ years total), so it has been difficult to justify buying something non-Ford. But, I kept my Mustang and I have 2 other Fords in my driveway (and we've bought dozens of Fords since working there), so my boss is okay with the non-Ford showing up at our Ford store's employee parking lot.

As brilliant as the 5.0L Coyote is, and as nice as the S197 & S550 platforms are, Challenger is gaining sales momentum (some months beating Camaro) by offering a great range of Hemi's with boatloads of torque - especially in the 6.4L SRT Hemi and the 6.2L Hellcat Hemi and their new 8 speed auto is way better than the 6R80 in my '14 GT that I thought was great. Plus, some of us still love retro styling and the new Challenger is nearly a dead ringer for the 1971 models, while Mustang S550 has evolved into something too European looking to appeal to a wider audience.

I'm hoping for a really awesome looking Mustang for 2018 or 2019 that tugs at my emotions (i.e. Mach 1), while being affordable. I leased the Scat Pack for 3 years, so that lease is up in mid-2019 and my '14 Mustang will be long paid off by then, so I'll be a prime candidate for another new toy then. It must be a big V8 with RWD or AWD. No little engines with turbos for me. The 10-speed auto that is debuting in the '17 F-150 is going into the Mustang in about a year, so that will be a plus for Ford if it's anywhere as nice as the Mopar 8 speed auto.

These are definitely the "good old days" right now, and many of us are blessed to be able to afford these cool cars. I don't know how much longer the gov't will "allow" musclecars to exist, but I'm going to enjoy every minute of every drive in the mean time!

As an S197 owner, how do you find the handling of the Challenger? Have you pushed it all?

I was really surprised by a recent backroads drive in an R/T...the one great thing about the mature platform is that they have the chassis really well dialed in and balanced. It probably won't ever be an autocross car but I bet with the extra power of the 392 and some good (not all season!) tires, these cars would hang with a lot of sports cars on country roads.

Do you plan any mods...or as a daily driver, is this one staying stock?

 

[JohnZiraldo]

....while Mustang S550 has evolved into something too European looking to appeal to a wider audience.
...

I have heard that putdown many times, but I just don't get how that can be accurate. What makes it European? Its not small. The IRS doesn't change it's looks. Is it because it appeals to Europeans as well as North Americans? Mustang has always been popular in Europe as well as Down Under. That's why Ford had a business case for a RHD version.

The body lines, the roof line, the taillights, the greenhouse are all classic Mustang shapes, just upgraded and integrated better. The grill is Ford family DNA, not Fusion nor European. What's left? The headlights?

I think "Its too European" is just a mindless putdown to replace "It has an SRA".

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