At what HP should one sleeve their 5 liter? Any benefits of sleeving if not going over 1000whp?

[illtal]

Doesn't the predator have a higher deck height then the Coyote

I think so.... With the setup I have it's .004 in the hole

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[Jackson1320]

are we sure it's a Predator block https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...edator-engine-block-kr3z-6010-a.159662/page-2

 

[illtal]

I'm not sure about the gt350 block but I know that the predator block is closed deck with extra structural bracing.

are we sure it's a Predator block https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...edator-engine-block-kr3z-6010-a.159662/page-2

Here is the voodoo
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/just-some-pics-of-a-voodoo-engine-block-gr3z-6010-f.159638/

 

[engineermike]

@bauern posted some time back that the only difference between the m52b block and production predator is that the m52b comes with dowels/plugs/squirters and production does not.

 

[bauern]

Doesn't the predator have a higher deck height then the Coyote

No they are the same.

so is there anyone that knows 100% for sure if this is the predator block or not

GR3Z-6010-F is the Gen2 Voodoo block, M52A (which has been discontinued) is the Gen2 Voodoo block, they are(were) the same part.
KR3Z-6010-A Is the Predator block, M52B is the Predator block, they are the same.
M52A was identical to M52B except for the oil squirters, clearance for rod bolts, and the location of the breather holes in the main bulkheads to account for the FPC/CPC.
I think the confusion stems from the coyote and M52B both using the "Gen3" terminology.
Technically, there is no 5.2L Gen3 Coyote from the factory.

 

[Angrey]

All things being equal....
A 5.2 L will make more power than a 5.0L. under boost: more displacement.

Dunno about GT350 heads,but I suspect most of the giddy up there is with the cams, but the valves (38.3mm/32.5mm) are slightly bigger than the gen3 (37.6mm/32.1mm)

Tuning and detonation resistance is part of the fuel/compression/tuning matrix. The block itself is stronger. The plasma bore is done better than on the coyote. As I pointed out earlier this block unsleeved is about 1300+ who depending on if you o ring/fire ring the heads and block, which is the plus. A sleeved coyote is good for 1500+ depending on if you do the same things.

An OEM coyote can make 1000 but at those boost levels, an untouched long block will a: lose a ring landing and fail, b: blow a head gasket and fail, c: complete distruction of the piston causing a rod to punch a hole in the block.

The pistons are actually the weakest point in the coyote not the rods, not the plasma bore. I'm not sure why people have broken snouts but I'd say that would be my second concern.

Your point about the pistons is part and parcel to the tear downs and the plasma coating "spots" we've seen with GT350's. We haven't seen enough Predator blocks torn down yet, but I suspect the forged pistons and thermal expansion/piston slap when cold contributes (if not causes) scraping of the plasma at off angles. I'm just speculating but with a set of hypers I'm betting the plasma coating lasts longer without visible trouble spots. Granted, scuff and trouble spots in the coating isn't a catastrophic failure point but it does contribute to compression losses. Perhaps that's no biggie on lowered compression motors. It might be connected to some of the excessive blow by and oil consumption we see with the voodoos as well.

I admit you don't "need" to sleeve a block, but if you're building one, it's kinda like my approach with my cylinder heads. I wasn't going to P/P them (GT350 heads flow great already) but when I busted a cam cap and had to send them to RPG to do a hone/match job, I was like, well, they're already there, might as well do a guide job and upgrade the valves and do a port job. So that I avoid the regret later of saying "man, if Id have just sleeved them back when I was building the motor, I wouldn't now be debating whether to sell it and build another motor with sleeves"

 

[Angrey]

No they are the same.

GR3Z-6010-F is the Gen2 Voodoo block, M52A (which has been discontinued) is the Gen2 Voodoo block, they are(were) the same part.
KR3Z-6010-A Is the Predator block, M52B is the Predator block, they are the same.
M52A was identical to M52B except for the oil squirters, clearance for rod bolts, and the location of the breather holes in the main bulkheads to account for the FPC/CPC.
I think the confusion stems from the coyote and M52B both using the "Gen3" terminology.
Technically, there is no 5.2L Gen3 Coyote from the factory.

To clarify, KR3Z-6010-A and the 52B are indeed the same casting/block but they come with different provisions, so if you're ordering you just need to understand the nuances of the two (with or without squirters, etc).

 

[bauern]

Here is the voodoo
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/just-some-pics-of-a-voodoo-engine-block-gr3z-6010-f.159638/

The Predator:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...f-a-predator-engine-block-kr3z-6010-a.159662/

 

[WIST2019GT]

Can you buy an assembled predator shortblock from ford or is it only empty blocks?

 

[engineermike]

Can you buy an assembled predator shortblock from ford or is it only empty blocks?

I found what I believe to be the correct part number for an assembled short block, but when you call most dealers they say not available. A limited number of web sites list it as available with a price, but the description doesn’t indicate what it is exactly. Iirc it was $7500 plus $1000 core plus shipping. I think you’d be cheaper to buy the individual components from for and assemble. Block is $2000, crank is $1200, pistons are $200 each with rings, rods are $165 each, bearings are about $200, for about $6200 total. I’m not 100% certain these are compomemt balanced the same but I suspect they are.

 

[Jackson1320]

No they are the same.

GR3Z-6010-F is the Gen2 Voodoo block, M52A (which has been discontinued) is the Gen2 Voodoo block, they are(were) the same part.
KR3Z-6010-A Is the Predator block, M52B is the Predator block, they are the same.
M52A was identical to M52B except for the oil squirters, clearance for rod bolts, and the location of the breather holes in the main bulkheads to account for the FPC/CPC.
I think the confusion stems from the coyote and M52B both using the "Gen3" terminology.
Technically, there is no 5.2L Gen3 Coyote from the factory.

the voodoo block has a different deck height then a coyote. So how can it be the same as the predator if you say the predator has the same deck height as a coyote?

 

[bauern]

the voodoo block has a different deck height then a coyote. So how can it be the same as the predator if you say the predator has the same deck height as a coyote?

All three have the same deck height.

 

[Jackson1320]

All three have the same deck height.

i don't think that is correct. i hope so but i'm not sure

 

[bauern]

i don't think that is correct. i hope so but i'm not sure

Nope. Voodoo deck height is 8.937". 8.925" is simply the deck height the piston manufacturer used to calculate C.R. Nominally the stock piston is .012" down. Diamond assumes the block deck milled down to get zero deck height.

 

[illtal]

Your point about the pistons is part and parcel to the tear downs and the plasma coating "spots" we've seen with GT350's. We haven't seen enough Predator blocks torn down yet, but I suspect the forged pistons and thermal expansion/piston slap when cold contributes (if not causes) scraping of the plasma at off angles. I'm just speculating but with a set of hypers I'm betting the plasma coating lasts longer without visible trouble spots. Granted, scuff and trouble spots in the coating isn't a catastrophic failure point but it does contribute to compression losses. Perhaps that's no biggie on lowered compression motors. It might be connected to some of the excessive blow by and oil consumption we see with the voodoos as well.

I admit you don't "need" to sleeve a block, but if you're building one, it's kinda like my approach with my cylinder heads. I wasn't going to P/P them (GT350 heads flow great already) but when I busted a cam cap and had to send them to RPG to do a hone/match job, I was like, well, they're already there, might as well do a guide job and upgrade the valves and do a port job. So that I avoid the regret later of saying "man, if Id have just sleeved them back when I was building the motor, I wouldn't now be debating whether to sell it and build another motor with sleeves"

The problem with the GT350 IS the Voodoo engine. It is a ROCKING COUPLE from the factory., It just isn't a well balanced engine with it's up down up down configurations.

A few Youtubers and PBD have torn down a blown up engine, the bores all look fine (except where the piston fails of course), it's the pistons that fail and mangle shit up.

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