At what HP should one sleeve their 5 liter? Any benefits of sleeving if not going over 1000whp?

[Angrey]

I have a TKM block with Darton sleeves. Sleeving only added $750 when I built mine a couple years ago. I'm sure like everything it's more now but I thought it was a no-brainer.

THIS. If you're spending the money on a high hp build, it's almost irresponsible to not spend $1k more to just sleeve it. Aside from the rigidity to the block, there are other benefits. The plasma coating for cylinder bores is razor thin and it only takes the smallest conflict between piston/ring and cylinder wall to compromise it. Several tear down videos I've seen involve either sleeving it or tossing it because the plasma coating isn't something available.

Over design, under utilize. Especially if you're going to "abuse" the car with track use, (extended sessions) or long highway rips back to back, etc.

All these rules of thumb are usually developed by drag car/trailer queen use and dyno rips and pulls. It's a lot harder on a motor to max it out repeatedly under full heat than it is to do a burnout and a 10 second pass.

The newer block architecture is better, but if you're gonna drop $12k-$15k on a motor, what's another $1k while you're in there?

Sponsored

 

[Mach9310]

I have a RPG Gen 3 Level 2 Short Block ($6800). I had the block Sleeved and O-Ringed for an additional $2700. Maybe overkill for my current power level but the car has ran 950+ whp for a year now so far so good. I have plans of 1200whp in the future. Buy once cry once is the best philosophy imo.

 

[Jackson1320]

Can you put gen 3 DI heads on the predator short block in a gen 3 coyote? Seems like it could be a good/cheap alternative to a rod and piston build.

show me where i can get a predator shortblock for less than rods and pistons?

 

[Jackson1320]

THIS. If you're spending the money on a high hp build, it's almost irresponsible to not spend $1k more to just sleeve it. Aside from the rigidity to the block, there are other benefits. The plasma coating for cylinder bores is razor thin and it only takes the smallest conflict between piston/ring and cylinder wall to compromise it. Several tear down videos I've seen involve either sleeving it or tossing it because the plasma coating isn't something available.

Over design, under utilize. Especially if you're going to "abuse" the car with track use, (extended sessions) or long highway rips back to back, etc.

All these rules of thumb are usually developed by drag car/trailer queen use and dyno rips and pulls. It's a lot harder on a motor to max it out repeatedly under full heat than it is to do a burnout and a 10 second pass.

The newer block architecture is better, but if you're gonna drop $12k-$15k on a motor, what's another $1k while you're in there?

ok first sleeves are closer to 3k and second they are able to redo the plasma linings and offer it for other engines it just isn't common yet. give it time

 

[Unas2k5]

What are the benefits of getting a predator block and GT350 heads. Does a 5.2 liter make more HP at the same boost level as the 5.0 ? Also is the tuning different? any detonation difference? More reliable ?

 

[illtal]

What are the benefits of getting a predator block and GT350 heads. Does a 5.2 liter make more HP at the same boost level as the 5.0 ? Also is the tuning different? any detonation difference? More reliable ?

All things being equal....
A 5.2 L will make more power than a 5.0L. under boost: more displacement.

Dunno about GT350 heads,but I suspect most of the giddy up there is with the cams, but the valves (38.3mm/32.5mm) are slightly bigger than the gen3 (37.6mm/32.1mm)

Tuning and detonation resistance is part of the fuel/compression/tuning matrix. The block itself is stronger. The plasma bore is done better than on the coyote. As I pointed out earlier this block unsleeved is about 1300+ who depending on if you o ring/fire ring the heads and block, which is the plus. A sleeved coyote is good for 1500+ depending on if you do the same things.

An OEM coyote can make 1000 but at those boost levels, an untouched long block will a: lose a ring landing and fail, b: blow a head gasket and fail, c: complete distruction of the piston causing a rod to punch a hole in the block.

The pistons are actually the weakest point in the coyote not the rods, not the plasma bore. I'm not sure why people have broken snouts but I'd say that would be my second concern.

 

[illtal]

Mahle says 8.4 Cc.

Ok the spec on these pistons are 7cc.

 

[smokescreens]

to sleeve is around $2500-$3500 so I agree with mike you can get a block that is ready to be built for a lot less. for $1900 get a 3.7 bore block or for $900 get a new stock block.

Where can you find a predator block? I see a 5.2l gen3 block but not a predator

 

[engineermike]

Where can you find a predator block? I see a 5.2l gen3 block but not a predator

I think you mean 5.2 liter gen2, which means gt500 (predator) and late gt350 (voodoo). The gen2 5.2 has 6 knock sensor bosses and is required when used in a gen3 coyote application. The gen1 5.2 (early gt350) has 2 knock sensor bosses and will work in gen2 coyote applications. Anyone feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

Edit: Apparently there were 3 versions of the 5.2 block: early voodoo with 2 knock sensor bosses, late voodoo with 6 bosses (m52a), and predator with 6 bosses and more rod bolt clearance (m52b).

The ford performance 5.2 block is the same as the production gen2 5.2 block. The production block can be found a tad cheaper but I’m not 100% sure it comes with the dowel pins and squirters like the FP block.

 

[Jackson1320]

I think you mean 5.2 liter gen2, which means gt500 (predator) and late gt350 (voodoo). The gen2 5.2 has 6 knock sensor bosses and is required when used in a gen3 coyote application. The gen1 5.2 (early gt350) has 2 knock sensor bosses and will work in gen2 coyote applications. Anyone feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

The ford performance 5.2 block is the same as the production gen2 5.2 block. The production block can be found a tad cheaper but I’m not 100% sure it comes with the dowel pins and squirters like the FP block.

the gen3 coyote uses 4 knock sensors. and he means a gen3 coyote block. there is a gen3 coyote block with a 3.7 bore available, i have one in my garage right now part number M-6010-M52B best coyote block available I would use it over a predator block

 

[smokescreens]

I think you mean 5.2 liter gen2, which means gt500 (predator) and late gt350 (voodoo). The gen2 5.2 has 6 knock sensor bosses and is required when used in a gen3 coyote application. The gen1 5.2 (early gt350) has 2 knock sensor bosses and will work in gen2 coyote applications. Anyone feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

The ford performance 5.2 block is the same as the production gen2 5.2 block. The production block can be found a tad cheaper but I’m not 100% sure it comes with the dowel pins and squirters like the FP block.

Thisbis what i seen. What is this block?
https://accessories.ford.com/products/mustang-2015-2021-5-2l-gen-3-coyote-aluminum-engine-block

 

[illtal]

I will look at the spec sheet, and see what part number they used. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the gen3 5.2 @Jackson1320 mentioned.

 

[Jackson1320]

Where can you find a predator block? I see a 5.2l gen3 block but not a predator

I didn't say predator block I said you could get a block the gen3 Coyote 3.7 block is just as good if not better than the predator

 

[Jackson1320]

I will look at the spec sheet, and see what part number they used. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the gen3 5.2 @Jackson1320 mentioned.

The one I mentioned is actually an upgraded version of the predator block M-6010-M52B if predator uses M-6010-M52A

 

[illtal]

The one I mentioned is actually an upgraded version of the predator block M-6010-M52B

That is what they used.....

Sponsored