Alignment gurus.... I need your advice! ( DEALER INSTALLED SPRING UPSIDE DOWN)

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes & Chassis' started by Nemesys, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    #1 Nemesys, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    So after a weekend of driving my car dropped on Sportlines. Ive noticed some really weird issues, and I think they're alignment related.

    Issue 1-

    On hard acceleration or high speed pulls on the highway the car seems to sway back and forth. It feels really squirelly but not losing traction squirelly, just swaying right and left.


    Issue 2-

    On sweeping left hand turns , the car does the same thing. The car rocks side to side. On sweeping rights I dont feel anything wrong.

    No clunks, creaks, or any other weirdness when turning full lock in parking lots or anything. Just on sweeping turns and hard acceleration do I feel that side to side swaying.


    Here is my alignment sheet. Does the TOE seem way off , shouldnt they be the same? Is this what could be causing the weird problems?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    I would say that is most likely to do with your springs settling at the moment. Otherwise it could be your front left and right rear cambers. Those need to be brought down to -1.5 or less. Toe looks good and if anything the 0.26 deg of rear toe will help stabilize the car under acceleration.
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    #3 Nemesys, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    I dunno I've had a lot of lowered vehicles and this just doesn't seem right. Like you actually feel the car shimmy and wobble on harder sweeping lefts or under accel. Its crazy.
     
  4. 908ssp

    908ssp Well-Known Member

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    I think you need more toe in on the front. You have a little over 1/10th of a degree I think 1 degree will feel better and be more self centering less hunting from side to side. Actully if I read that chart right you have toe out which is nothing but bad for stability. You want 1 degree toe in. Your original settings were -.21 and -.17 which taken together give you -.38 almost half a degree toe in. Now you have toe out. I am surprised they let you drive out like that. Toe will cause excessive tire wear and will dart and drift with every road imperfection.
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    Im going to run it back by the dealer tomorrow morning and have them check the alignment again. When it warms up a bit, im going to check what I can and make sure its all tightened down.
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    So upon checking my box with stock springs, I find this. It seems they didnt install the bump stops? But would that cause the issues im seeing?

    [​IMG]
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    I FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS WRONG. THEY ISNTALLED MY SPRING UPSIDE DOWN.


    CORRECT REAR PASSENGER SIDE SPRING:

    [​IMG]


    DRIVERS SIDE REAR SPRING. UPSIDE DOWN

    [​IMG]
     
  8. dannycoconuts

    dannycoconuts Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow really that sucks!
     
  9. 908ssp

    908ssp Well-Known Member

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    I really doubt you can feel one spring being upside down. Yes it is wrong and should be fixed but it is not what you're feeling. Toe out is what you're feeling. The spring pushes straight down on the lower arm really doesn't matter which end is up or down the suspension is not positioned right or left, sideways, for and aft by the spring it merely holds the car up.
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    #10 Nemesys, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    Well all signs poi t to that being the issue because I took the car to an alignment shop today to measure and he said the toe is still in tolerances and if it wasn't I would feel it in any turn. They also said the upside down spring wouldn't have been a huge issue if both were upside down but since one is normal the rebound is going to react different to road conditions. On acceleration the car squats harder on the rear left side and pushes right . Either way it's getting fixed tommorrow
     
  11. joepro

    joepro Member

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    #11 joepro, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    Progressive springs can be installed either way, its a spring, doesn't matter, however I would like them both installed the same way just because. The reason it feels squirrely is the positive toe in the rear. streets cars usually run slight toe in for stability, get them to slight toe in all 4 and it will feel good. Also, have them drive the car round the shop or building before they put it on the alignment rack, I see too many people go right from the lift to the alignment rack, the body never settles back down and you get a $%^ alignment. I am not and "expert" but have been doing my own alignments at work for years now. I set my Zs up with about -1.25 to -1.4 camber and about -.02 - to -.04( in) toe and it was stable and behaved well on the street. Also all stock alignment specs will toe in the front and rear for stability. The bump stops supplied with the springs are most likely shorter than the OE to prevent them from hitting too much, in the past you always just cut the oes, definitely have them swap them out or cut the oes.

    No offense to that dealer but they obviously did not have someone who understands alignement angles do your car, I would find an independtent shop that specializes in aftermarket components.


    A decent high level overview of suspension angles:

    http://en.intraxracing.nl/techniek/camber,-caster,-toe-intoe-out/
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    So why does it feel completely normal on sweeping right hand turns. It only feels squirrelly on sweeping lefts?


    and yep for sure, after they fix this I will go to a new performance shop for another alignment in a few months to check.
     
  13. joepro

    joepro Member

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    I would hypothesis its the weight difference, you should also have a fullish tank of gas and have weights in the drivers seat or be in it.
     
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    Nemesys

    Nemesys Well-Known Member

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    Well had the wife riding with me this afternoon and there was no change in how the car reacted. Full tank when I noticed the issue a few days ago, almost on E today.

    But I will make sure I mention this tommorrow and make sure they do what they can.
     
  15. joepro

    joepro Member

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    get the spring to your liking and get the alignment dialed in, make sure everything is tight and go from there, its not working going back and forth on, but the spring direction in my opinion is not the culprit, the spring rate is the same no matter what direction it is in. Also make sure they seated the spring properly in the bucket, I have seen springs not properly seated, the end the spring has to be seated into the bucket against the stop, or it would cause some issues for sure.
     
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