A bit disappointed with my 17 GT PP

millhouse

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It's marketing, not to be taken seriously.

I'd like to do a VIR FATT, maybe next year. I am deathly worried I'll crash my car, and I know I'd need to do some stuff like cooling for the diff and transmission.
It's funny, people won't think twice about running around on a road course WITHOUT INSURANCE yet bitch and moan about spending a small amount of money to make a car be able to lap for hours on end.

You're right to be deathly worried. Track insurance isn't cheap (but neither is tires and brakes), but well worth the expense. Most cover "events", so it's most economical to find multi-day track events to make better use of the price.





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mustang1

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They're NOT track cars. That's it, that's all there is to it.

If you want to track a car, you've got to modify it to do so. It's not hard, it's not expensive.
this implies track car :


Track Apps™
Standard on all models, performance metrics are instantly provided in the instrument cluster. Accelerometer displays lateral and longitudinal g-forces, acceleration times and lap times, plus automatic and countdown starts. Also included are features like electronic line-lock* and launch control* (manual only). Electronic line-lock keeps the front brakes locked while Mustang is in gear to warm up the rear tires. Launch control integrates brakes, traction control and powertrain control to help ensure smooth, consistent starts.

*Track use only
 

saleen367

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The vast majority of owners have no need for the coolers. It would be money down the drain for Ford unless they up charged the Performance packages to compensate for it.



But what it really comes down to is the fact that Ford does not want to take market share away from the GT350 in any, way, shape or form.


How would you sell a GT350 for $62k when you could buy a, say, PP2 with all the same goodies minus "60hp", a few body panels and larger brakes for $15k less? The GT350, not the GT, is marketed after the SS1LE. Having said that, I wish there was a "track cooler" option, but I'm pretty sure Ford won't offer one with the GT350 in the lineup.
 

millhouse

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Ford gave a majority what they wanted, a track "capable" car with bigger brakes, better aero, unique wheels, summer tires, Torsen diff, bigger radiator etc. And the package originally cost a mere $2500...this was a steal even without the additional cooling. There are 1-2 people that complain every year that it doesn't come with more and another 1-2 that actually complain that have actually needed the extra cooling. The other 99% are just fine and dandy with the way that it came and will never need a diff cooler.

For those that actually need it, suck it up and buy a diff cooler. You bought a car that you can drive on the track, not a track car you can drive on the street. You should have known this by the omission of a differential cooler. You have already spent thousands on tires, brakes and track insurance on a regular basis. A diff cooler is not going to void your warranty and costs less than most aftermarket cat-backs.
 

NoVaGT

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this implies track car :


Track Apps™
Standard on all models, performance metrics are instantly provided in the instrument cluster. Accelerometer displays lateral and longitudinal g-forces, acceleration times and lap times, plus automatic and countdown starts. Also included are features like electronic line-lock* and launch control* (manual only). Electronic line-lock keeps the front brakes locked while Mustang is in gear to warm up the rear tires. Launch control integrates brakes, traction control and powertrain control to help ensure smooth, consistent starts.

*Track use only
Only for people that have either never been to an actual track, or listened to people that have done track driving.

I've never been on a race track in my life, and I've known for many, many years that street cars are not track cars, that a street car needs modifications for the track.

If all a PP1 Mustang needs for a Friday At The Track is a diff, transmission, and up-graded oil cooler, that's pretty damned good.
 

Grintch

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The MY15 performance pack was $2500, and that's what the complaint in here is about.

Is it?


Was at Laguna seca last Friday and even on a 80* day, I got the rear differential overheated warning every single session after about 15/20 minutes
That is also after changing the fluid to 75w140
Oil temp was dangerously close to the yellow ( about 270*)
The Friday before that, I was at Thunderhill and had the same issues.
It's too bad that a great (track) car is let down by cooling issues

Thinking about the 2018 with the PP2, must be even worst, faster car with 305 cup tires all around and still no coolers!!!!!
What is/was Ford thinking about?????
Sounds like it has two parts.
One complaining that his PP was uncompetitive, which is forgivable given it was cheaper. But for a 2017, at $4000, the PP was not nearly the value it was in 2015 for $2300 for the exact same hardware.

And two, complaining that a new PP2 was still uncompetitive. Not forgivable as it is essentially the same price as a 1LE, and had the advantage of a well defined target.

Please raise your hand if you actually paid an extra $6500 - 8500 for the PP2 and are glad that it doesn't include the Recaros, trans and diff coolers, HUD, 2 Piece front brake rotors and 4 piston rear calipers, active exhaust, and actually adjustable front camber that the 1LE package provides for similar money. Or that it wasn't $2000 or more cheaper to account for that missing equipment.
 
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luc

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Only for people that have either never been to an actual track, or listened to people that have done track driving.

I've never been on a race track in my life, and I've known for many, many years that street cars are not track cars, that a street car needs modifications for the track.

If all a PP1 Mustang needs for a Friday At The Track is a diff, transmission, and up-graded oil cooler, that's pretty damned good.
Your blanket statement really show your ignorance.
Most cars at an hpde/open track event are completely stock street cars.
20 years ago it was a different story but it's what it is now.

How do I know? I literally been at track events hundreds of time and have been running a race AND open-track club in California for over 15 years
 

millhouse

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Is it?




Sounds like it has two parts.
One complaining that his PP was uncompetitive, which is forgivable given it was cheaper. But for a 2017, at $4000, the PP was not nearly the value it was in 2015 for $2300 for the exact same hardware.

And two, complaining that a new PP2 was still uncompetitive. Not forgivable as it is essentially the same price as a 1LE, and had the advantage of a well defined target.

Please raise your hand if you actually paid an extra $6500 - 8500 for the PP2 and are glad that it doesn't include the Recaros, trans and diff coolers, HUD, 2 Piece front brake rotors and 4 piston rear calipers, active exhaust, and actually adjustable front camber that the 1LE package provides for similar money. Or that it wasn't $2000 or more cheaper to account for that missing equipment.
It was. I don't disagree, the PP1 is not nearly the bargain it once was. The take rate on the previous gen was somewhere above 30%. Ford knew this and jacked the price up to gouge its customers.

I do agree, for $6500-$8000 the PP2 absolutely come with coolers. It's a disgrace that it doesn't. It will likely lap near identical times to a SS 1LE, but will absolutely be limited in duration.
 

Rocketman

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Is it?




Sounds like it has two parts.
One complaining that his PP was uncompetitive, which is forgivable given it was cheaper. But for a 2017, at $4000, the PP was not nearly the value it was in 2015 for $2300 for the exact same hardware.

And two, complaining that a new PP2 was still uncompetitive. Not forgivable as it is essentially the same price as a 1LE, and had the advantage of a well defined target.

Please raise your hand if you actually paid an extra $6500 - 8500 for the PP2 and are glad that it doesn't include the Recaros, trans and diff coolers, HUD, 2 Piece front brake rotors and 4 piston rear calipers, active exhaust, and actually adjustable front camber that the 1LE package provides for similar money. Or that it wasn't $2000 or more cheaper to account for that missing equipment.
Don't forget the forged wheels and short shifter.
 

accel

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Was at Laguna seca last Friday and even on a 80* day, I got the rear differential overheated warning every single session after about 15/20 minutes
That is also after changing the fluid to 75w140
Oil temp was dangerously close to the yellow ( about 270*)
The Friday before that, I was at Thunderhill and had the same issues.
It's too bad that a great (track) car is let down by cooling issues

Thinking about the 2018 with the PP2, must be even worst, faster car with 305 cup tires all around and still no coolers!!!!!
What is/was Ford thinking about?????
Think about it this way - other cars people track may be no better than Mustang in this regard. They just do not have temp sensor in the diff. My former "ultimate driving machine" didn't have it. It didn't have lsd either, was breaking in frequent and expensive ways despite sayeng ultimatecdriving machine at window sticker.
 

HeelToeHero

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Think about it this way - other cars people track may be no better than Mustang in this regard. They just do not have temp sensor in the diff. My former "ultimate driving machine" didn't have it. It didn't have lsd either, was breaking in frequent and expensive ways despite sayeng ultimatecdriving machine at window sticker.
This and it is a hpde. Some people may be ok with taking a cool down lap mid session. Often you hit traffic anyways. I take that opportunity to go up a gear or two to let the car cool.
 
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luc

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Think about it this way - other cars people track may be no better than Mustang in this regard. They just do not have temp sensor in the diff. My former "ultimate driving machine" didn't have it. It didn't have lsd either, was breaking in frequent and expensive ways despite sayeng ultimatecdriving machine at window sticker.
good point
 

mustang1

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Cup 2 also indicates track car. Given the tirerack description, it is not a good daily driver tire, and they are $411/each.

Performance Package – Level 2
$6,500 S4
• 305/30/R19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tires (Summer Only)

PILOT SPORT CUP 2 - SIZE: 305/30ZR19
Streetable Track & Competition

"Designed to provide faster circuit times and consistent performance lap after lap, the Pilot Sport Cup 2 allows these supercars to achieve their full potential in dry conditions.

"Warning: Pilot Sport Cup 2 radials meet DOT requirements, however they are not recommended for driving in wet conditions where standing water is present and there is the risk of hydroplaning; drivers should drive cautiously at reduced speeds if they encounter these conditions. This is especially true of shaved or worn tires. And like other Streetable Track & Competition tires, these tires are not intended to be stored, serviced nor driven in near- or below freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.
 

saleen367

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It was. I don't disagree, the PP1 is not nearly the bargain it once was. The take rate on the previous gen was somewhere above 30%. Ford knew this and jacked the price up to gouge its customers.

I do agree, for $6500-$8000 the PP2 absolutely come with coolers. It's a disgrace that it doesn't. It will likely lap near identical times to a SS 1LE, but will absolutely be limited in duration.
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow;


The Camaro SS 1LE laid down a 1:20.67 lap, 3.3 seconds quicker than the 2018 Mustang GT PP1 @ 1:23.97. I have my doubts the PP2 will make up 3.3 secs ... that's a huge margin on a 1.55 mi road course.

To better illustrate the ability the SS1LE, the GT350R matched its lap time of 1:28.29 on the 2.5 mi Willow course.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs
 
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millhouse

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Willow Springs - Streets of Willow;


The Camaro SS 1LE laid down a 1:20.67 lap, 3.3 seconds quicker than the 2018 Mustang GT PP1 @ 1:23.97. I have my doubts the PP2 will make up 3.3 secs ... that's a huge margin on a 1.55 mi road course.

To better illustrate the ability the SS1LE, the GT350R matched its lap time of 1:28.29 on the 2.5 mi Willow course.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs
The SS1LE didn’t match shit. Sorry, fastest laps on different days with different drivers don’t count.

The closest I’ve seen it is over a second and a half slower on the same track, same day same driver. Yes, its Laguna and not Streets of Willow…but the GT350R has never been tested head to head so it’s the best we have.

As for the PP2…

“While testing the car at Grattan Raceway in Michigan, the Level 2 package shaved 3.5 seconds from the Lap time of the Level 1 package.”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...g-gt-performance-package-level-2-info-photos/

“But when I asked the team how much quicker the Perf Pack 2 was relative to the 1 around Streets of Willow Springs (they’ve tested the car at lots of tracks), the answer was “Between 2.5 and 3.0 seconds”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2018/2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-2-review/
 

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