7th Generation Mustang (S650) Moved to 2022...

[Arthonon]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/02/chevrolet-sold-one-single-car-in-the-uk-last-month/

Right, but it's not like they didn't offer any cars in the UK, they just didn't sell any more than one. Just like in the US, they offer more Camaros than they sell, which is the whole point - people are not buying their cars because they don't meet the needs of the buyers. In the case of the UK, it sounds like a big factor is that they don't offer right-hand drive, but that's GM's decision, just like the design of the Camaro is their decision, and it's not appealing to buyers.

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[HoosierDaddy]

Ford has tapped Getrag to build a manual transmission for the upcoming 2020 Ford Bronco. The new transmission which is to be dubbed, the MT-88 will be a seven-speed gearbox and will likely be paired with their 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6 engine.

Seems like a strange combo. The EcoBoost has a wide flat torque curve so needs fewer gears for performance. A turbo also reduces the mileage benefits of extra gears. Maybe much lower gears help off road, but won't the Bronco have a low range transfer case?

 

[Ace]

Right, but it's not like they didn't offer any cars in the UK, they just didn't sell any more than one. Just like in the US, they offer more Camaros than they sell, which is the whole point - people are not buying their cars because they don't meet the needs of the buyers. In the case of the UK, it sounds like a big factor is that they don't offer right-hand drive, but that's GM's decision, just like the design of the Camaro is their decision, and it's not appealing to buyers.

You can't compare GM and Ford in Europe. Ford Europe has dealers on every corner, you can buy and do service close to the city you live in. They have a huge network since they are mainly doing their own european cars and the Mustang is just the Halo car for boosting sales. All GM vehicles are sold by Cadillac Europe, but they only offer a handful of highend models like Camaro, Corvette, ATS-V, etc and have like no dealers at all.

GM has one (1!!!) dealer that sells Camaros and Corvette for the whole Great Britian. Other european countries show the same picture, Germany has about 9 dealers for sale of these cars.

So it's not like people don't want to buy the Camaro in Europe (it's selling pretty well in Germany in the sportscar segment, 6th Gen is having nearly twice as much sales as 5th Gen EU Camaros), but people usally don't a buy if your next dealer is 200+ miles away. Cadillac Europe is just way too small to push big sales.

 

[Twin Turbo]

GM has one (1!!!) dealer that sells Camaros and Corvette for the whole Great Britian. Other european countries show the same picture, Germany has about 9 dealers for sale of these cars.

We're getting a little off topic, but GM should simply have done what they did with the (admittedly already RHD, so ready for the UK market) Monaro......that was sold at any Vauxhall dealership, so as many places to buy one as there are Ford dealers for the Mustang.

 

[Twin Turbo]

This is a very interesting point. Will the hybrid come before or after S650 launch? On one hand, given that GT500 will be on S550, having the hybrid on S550 is possible and probably also helps the cost position of GT500 by providing more (though not a lot) volume on the S550 as the S650 rolls out. On the other hand, the S650 could be better optimized for packaging all the hybrid components. Thing is, if the hybrid is done off of S650, it more than likely will not be within the first year of S650, as alternative propulsion development, just like top performance development, tends to lag mainstream model development by a year or two.

I'm thinking the first hybrid comes off of S550 with as small of a battery pack as is possible, for minimal reduction of trunk space, then the replacement for that hybrid comes with S650 midcycle refresh in 3 or 4 years with a bigger battery with much better packaging. So for a couple years there would be a distinct visual difference between Mustang and Mustang Hybrid.

I can't remember if it was already posted in this thread, but my assumption is the Mustang hybrid will utilise the same setup as the forthcoming next-gen Explorer hybrid, and I understand that uses electric motors tied to the autobox. Assuming that's the case, it might well be possible to package this under the existing transmission tunnel. But, like all things future product related at Ford, it's all a bit of a guessing game!

 

[Arthonon]

We're getting a little off topic, but GM should simply have done what they did with the (admittedly already RHD, so ready for the UK market) Monaro......that was sold at any Vauxhall dealership, so as many places to buy one as there are Ford dealers for the Mustang.

Right, Ford made the investment and planning in servicing those markets, so their products are more desirable there.

Which, to tie this into the topic, makes me wonder what Ford is doing with the S650 to make it palatable outside of the US, and how the hybrid ties into that.

 

[martinjlm]

I can't remember if it was already posted in this thread, but my assumption is the Mustang hybrid will utilise the same setup as the forthcoming next-gen Explorer hybrid, and I understand that uses electric motors tied to the autobox. Assuming that's the case, it might well be possible to package this under the existing transmission tunnel. But, like all things future product related at Ford, it's all a bit of a guessing game!

I think the motor packaging is less of an issue than the battery, power electronics, and cable packaging. From what I've seen the hybrid drive will be integrated into the 10A for Mustang, Explorer, and F-150, so pretty much what you are saying. But the battery has gotta go somewhere, and in S550, it is more than likely in the trunk.

 

[jake_zx2]

But the battery has gotta go somewhere, and in S550, it is more than likely in the trunk.

Which makes me think the Hybrid will be available ONLY as a coupe... it'll probably take up about the same area as a folding convertible top would

 

[sbrenskell]

I personally will keep my 18. But I'm going to be curious to see what it will actually look like. I bet Ford saw these and are laughing so hard. Like "OMG! This is what they think the S650 will look like. Just wait till they ACTUALLY see what it looks like!!"

 

[sbrenskell]

Personally, assuming we're not actually waiting 5 years for S650 (after all, current rumour is it'll be a '22MY in 2021) then I'd rather they just adapt the S550 look.

Haven't posted this red render in while ;)

The DLO is similar, but slightly tweaked and the roof has a slightly more fastback rake. I especially like the return of the "hockey stick" on the side....the S197 had a mild version of this which was, of course, a nod to the '65-'68. The exaggerated rear hips hint at even more muscle.

Personally,if the S650 looks like this I'll get one!

 

[Bullitt]

That's a fair point, Matt.......with the current state Ford seems to be in, who knows what's really coming and when?!?!

With regards the hybrid-Stang though.....I know Ford originally stated that was coming for 2020, but I think so much has changed in the interim that the hybrid will be pushed back to S650. It would seem crazy to engineer it for just one model year, or so, before the "all new" car is launched. It would make more sense (to me) to package it around the new architecture.

Your line of thinking makes the most sense to me too, but I read recently (can't remember where) that someone was talking with Ford execs and they were talking as if the hybrid was still on track for 2020. The GT500 will likely live a short life as well and that arguably has taken more engineering might than a hybrid setup (possibly) from the Explorer that's made to fit the Mustang.

There might be broncos running around that we just don't know about. I mean, we usually see Mustangs a lot earlier on, but Mustang is also a more popular market when it comes to spy photos. A camo'd up SUV may just not catch the public eye like a loud camo'd up sports car does. Not to mention, they got the Ford GT nearly production ready without the public even knowing a GT was coming, so who knows. Although, I still don't see the bronco being released for 2020 like it was planned... I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere less than a year ago that the designers were STILL indecisive about how it was even going to look

I believe primary Bronco development is going on in Australia so there's definitely plenty of places to hide, but then again they spied the Ranger Raptor down under very early on when the prototypes started running around. There's a lot of hype around the Bronco and if it'll actually keep the boxy shape that was teased, so I think it's a high priority for the spies.

 

[w3rkn]

for thought:

+50Nm.. @ 1400+ rpms, is a lot.
An electric assist motor within the gearbox = 50nm. The battery is nothing more, than a bigger version of the car's battery, with better cycle use & charge rates.

 

[martinjlm]

for thought:

+50Nm.. @ 1400+ rpms, is a lot.
An electric assist motor within the gearbox = 50nm. The battery is nothing more, than a bigger version of the car's battery, with better cycle use & charge rates.

That might be true if it was a 48V Mild Hybrid, but Ford has already said that it will not be that. If you use the Fusion Hybrid as an example, that only has a 1.4kWh battery. Very small compared to the 7.6 kWh battery in the plug-in Fusion Energi or the 18.1 kWh battery in a Chevrolet Volt. But it is still MUCH larger than a car battery. This is the Fusion 1.4kWh battery.

View media item 13916
And here's how it is packaged in the car.

View media item 13915
Expect a similar sized battery for a Mustang hybrid.

 

[stang-man]

Noooooo ....

 

[marks]

I think the GT350 is one of the best looking modern car on the road (excluding super cars such as Ford GT), as long as the new version follows inspiration from this ill be happy

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