760hp may have been a lie.

Snoopy49

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305/30ZR20 PILOT SPORT CUP 2 tires are rated at (Y): 186+ mph - MAX. LOAD 1,929 lbs.
315/30ZR20 PILOT SPORT CUP 2 tires are rated at (Y): 186+ mph - MAX. LOAD 1,984 lbs.

305/30ZR20 PILOT SPORT 4S tires are rated at (Y): 186+ mph - MAX. LOAD 1,929 lbs.
315/30ZR20 PILOT SPORT 4S tires are rated at (Y): 186+ mph - MAX. LOAD 1,984 lbs.





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millhouse

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Y-rated tires are certified to 186mph. Aside from dedicated racing tires, there isn't a higher classification that seems to be defined. Why is it so unthinkable that the lawyers would have capped the car at the highest rated street tire speeds?

If the Camaro can only hit 202'ish out of a theoretical max of 217, it's short 5-7% of what could be accomplished. So your theoretical max of 191 for the GT500 becomes 181. Even if Ford pulled a rabbit out of their hat and only suffers a 3% shortage, that's 185MPH.

Or are you saying you have insider knowledge that the GT500 engineering is so excellent it will pull all the way to redline in 8th gear and bounce off the rev limiter and thus has proven to reach the theoretical max a simple-minded calculator says is possible? And you're pissed because they won't let you go all the way?
You can’t just take a percentage at 200+mph and apply it at lower speeds.

Without a limiter, the Gt500 will absolutely bounce off the limiter in 5th gear at 191mph. It has plenty of power and by all means an appropriate CD. This isn’t about engineering excellence, it’s about simple math and common sense. This isn’t a truck we’re talking about.

What’s funny is you are ignorant of what the ZL1 can do as well as the hellcat. They both can hit 200 mph and the hellcat has much worse aero. Yet for some reason (without any evidence) you seem to think the gt500 is going to hit a wall at 185mph when it has a better hp to weight ratio, similar or better aero and gearing that allows it to make 191mph before going into a steep overdrive?

And for the record, I could care less about the top speed on any of these cars.
 
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Tomster

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You can’t just take a percentage at 200+mph and apply it at lower speeds.

Without a limiter, the Gt500 will absolutely bounce off the limiter in 5th gear at 191mph. It has plenty of power and by all means an appropriate CD. This isn’t about engineering excellence, it’s about simple math and common sense. This isn’t a truck we’re talking about.

What’s funny is you are ignorant of what the ZL1 can do as well as the hellcat. They both can hit 200 mph and the hellcat has much worse aero. Yet for some reason (without any evidence) you seem to think the gt500 is going to hit a wall at 185mph when it has a better hp to weight ratio, similar or better aero and gearing that allows it to make 191mph before going into a steep overdrive?
I've been watching this go back and forth for a while now and you obviously have your facts together, besides, you sound like you know what you are talking about.

I'd like your opinion as to why you think Ford limited the GT500 speed. Tires? Too much downforce? Liability?

They did it for a reason and I can't put my finger on it nor can I find any leaked info.
 

shogun32

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when it has a better hp to weight ratio
irrelevant to top-speed achievable
, similar or better aero
You've got the coef of drag numbers, measured across a spectrum of speeds?
and gearing that allows it to make 191mph before going into a steep overdrive?
The Camaro 'top speed' is supposedly somewhere between 212-217 according to a silly calculator. It's been measured at 202.3 and people are supposed to be impressed that in that final gear (5th) the GT500 can only manage a theoretical 191-202 before running out of RPM? How is that a bragging point? So what if the GT500 could still "accelerate" if there aren't any more RPMs to be had, and it doesn't have the torque to maintain or increase speed further in the next gear? The limit of the car has been reached. Maybe Ford should have put a 3.55 diff in there. At least it would have some RPM headroom but without instrumentation nobody can say if it could even get to 202, let alone higher.

Granted anything over 180 (heck 150) is not actually usable with very rare exception so it pointless to bench race over.

And for the record, I could care less about the top speed on any of these cars.
ok, so why bring it up? Or trot out some silly calculator that doesn't factor in any aero realities, or claim the car can bounce off the rev limiter in 5th, but bitch about the factory limiting to a "noncompetitive" 186 vs it's immediate competition?
 
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obspsd

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I've been watching this go back and forth for a while now and you obviously have your facts together, besides, you sound like you know what you are talking about.

I'd like your opinion as to why you think Ford limited the GT500 speed. Tires? Too much downforce? Liability?

They did it for a reason and I can't put my finger on it nor can I find any leaked info.
The same reason they installed hood pins.
The hood was trying to lift off the car at very high speeds because of all the air injested in the front end.
At least that is the best answer I have.
Also they said they never got over 180mph on a track.
They also say the gt4 wing provides 550 pounds of downforce at 180mph.
I guess they got that number from wind tunnel testing.
 

Tomster

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The same reason they installed hood pins.
The hood was trying to lift off the car at very high speeds because of all the air injested in the front end.
At least that is the best answer I have.
Also they said they never got over 180mph on a track.
They also say the gt4 wing provides 550 pounds of downforce at 180mph.
I guess they got that number from wind tunnel testing.
True. I experience that as well and it is a bit unnerving. However the hood hasn't flown off yet.

The rest of it are concerns but I don't think any of those would be limitations that couldn't be overcome.

Just because they never got it above 180, doesn't mean that it can't or won't go that fast. Heck, I had a 350 go almost that fast. I think the 500 could do a lot more.
Screenshot_20190101-102441.png
 

millhouse

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I've been watching this go back and forth for a while now and you obviously have your facts together, besides, you sound like you know what you are talking about.

I'd like your opinion as to why you think Ford limited the GT500 speed. Tires? Too much downforce? Liability?

They did it for a reason and I can't put my finger on it nor can I find any leaked info.
Honestly, I think Ford was dead set on running certain lap times. They setup the transmission and tires to run these times at all cost, and in doing so sacrificed the one performance metric that doesn’t matter and most don’t care about. They could have capped the top speed higher, however tires are the limiting factor here. And besides, by capping at 180 they are also able to save grace about any top speed comparisons. It’s intentional rather than incapable.
 

millhouse

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irrelevant to top-speed achievable

You've got the coef of drag numbers, measured across a spectrum of speeds?

The Camaro 'top speed' is supposedly somewhere between 212-217 according to a silly calculator. It's been measured at 202.3 and people are supposed to be impressed that in that final gear (5th) the GT500 can only manage a theoretical 191-202 before running out of RPM? How is that a bragging point? So what if the GT500 could still "accelerate" if there aren't any more RPMs to be had, and it doesn't have the torque to maintain or increase speed further in the next gear? The limit of the car has been reached. Maybe Ford should have put a 3.55 diff in there. At least it would have some RPM headroom but without instrumentation nobody can say if it could even get to 202, let alone higher.

Granted anything over 180 (heck 150) is not actually usable with very rare exception so it pointless to bench race over.


ok, so why bring it up? Or trot out some silly calculator that doesn't factor in any aero realities, or claim the car can bounce off the rev limiter in 5th, but bitch about the factory limiting to a "noncompetitive" 186 vs it's immediate competition?
Weight does matter. It’s called rolling resistance. You would know this if you had taking any physics classes.

I’m done arguing with you on this. It’s obviously above your level of comprehension. Hell, you thought the ZL1 was aero limited to 180mph for Pete’s sake.
 

PP0001

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Weight does matter. It’s called rolling resistance. You would know this if you had taking any physics classes.

I’m done arguing with you on this. It’s obviously above your level of comprehension. Hell, you thought the ZL1 was aero limited to 180mph for Pete’s sake.
Certain individuals on this forum have nothing good to say about the worlds best Pony Car and no matter how much we try to reason with them based on logic, facts and proven statistics not of that unfortunately will ever sink in.

:wink:
 

Snoopy49

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Honestly, I think Ford was dead set on running certain lap times. They setup the transmission and tires to run these times at all cost, and in doing so sacrificed the one performance metric that doesn’t matter and most don’t care about. They could have capped the top speed higher, however tires are the limiting factor here. And besides, by capping at 180 they are also able to save grace about any top speed comparisons. It’s intentional rather than incapable.
How are tires the limiting factor?
 

millhouse

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Snoopy49

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Tires are one factor, not the factor. I shouldn't have phrased my post as such.
I was trying to figure out how the tires limited the top speed to 180 or 186 MPH. The tires are rated for speeds over 186 MPH.
 

FastCarFanBoy

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So, what is the consensus? That the GT500 can accelerate beyond the theoretical vmax in 5th of 188ish by shifting into a .68 sixth gear and Ford decided to limit it to 186 or that it would hit fuel cutoff at 188 in 5th and that for decided to limit it to 186?
 

millhouse

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So, what is the consensus? That the GT500 can accelerate beyond the theoretical vmax in 5th of 188ish by shifting into a .68 sixth gear and Ford decided to limit it to 186 or that it would hit fuel cutoff at 188 in 5th and that for decided to limit it to 186?
Theoretical max by all available numbers is 191mph based on published tremec transmission options and a max rear end gearing of 3.73. I'm not sure where you're getting the 188mph from.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if there is an issue with shifting into OD at 191mph with transmission strength. Overdrive gearing in most transmissions is not known for being particularly robust.

All cars are drag limited....however, if the GT500 had proper gearing...it would have no problem surpassing 200 mph. Ford simply chose gearing based on performance and excluded top speed in it's criteria. If it had an A10 transmission, they likely would have been able to include a higher drag limited top speed.

Edit:
While all cars are drag limited, I'm calling the GT500 gearing limited. It absolutely has power to reach a much higher top speed, but Ford chose gearing that would not excel in that area.
 

FastCarFanBoy

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I'm going with...it's out of gas at 186, just cant overcome drag.


I'm just tired of hearing that they limited it because its unstable when it's clearly not geared to be faster.
 

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