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6 point Harness in a GT350 w/o a roll bar?

Zitrosounds

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My Watson roll cage is on the way and I'm going with the Schroth PROFI II ASM FE 4-Point harnesses. I did a ton of research on this and it seems to be the best way to go w/o drilling the floor and/or replacing the seats.

I know to some the cage may seem like a lot, but to me it's worth it in this car and fits it well.
You have to drill with the watson bar. Check out their install instructions
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scannon

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I was aware of the dangers of harness without a roll bar. I plan to trade my GT350 in on a GT500 when they finally are released for sale. I think a roll bar or evidence of having had a roll bar will greatly diminish the value of the car to the dealer or a public sale.

I don't do much tracking these days. I have a total of over 9,000 track miles in open cars with roll bars, I was hoping the newer cars had enough strength in the roof and pillars to do without the roll bar. Don't all new cars have to meet a fairly strict roll over standard? With the thickness of A pillars getting bigger all the time there should be much more strength in them to sustain a roll over.
 

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If you don't need to satisfy a sanctioning bodies regulations and just want the added stability of a harness, a 6-point can be installed without drilling into the floor for your leg-belts by attaching them to the front seat mounting bolts (you may need longer mounting bolts).

Fully understand folks not wanting to install a roll-cage in their street car, I've done it in the past and they definitely get in the way when not needed. However, for what most are wanting, a simple bolt-in 4-point roll-bar will do everything needed and only inconvenience back seat access. Just a possible option for some.
Doesn't a 6-point harness require using a different seat in the GT350?
 

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I was aware of the dangers of harness without a roll bar. I plan to trade my GT350 in on a GT500 when they finally are released for sale. I think a roll bar or evidence of having had a roll bar will greatly diminish the value of the car to the dealer or a public sale.

I don't do much tracking these days. I have a total of over 9,000 track miles in open cars with roll bars, I was hoping the newer cars had enough strength in the roof and pillars to do without the roll bar. Don't all new cars have to meet a fairly strict roll over standard? With the thickness of A pillars getting bigger all the time there should be much more strength in them to sustain a roll over.
They aren’t strong enough. What’s your neck worth? A new carpet and interior panel or two?
 

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I was aware of the dangers of harness without a roll bar. I plan to trade my GT350 in on a GT500 when they finally are released for sale. I think a roll bar or evidence of having had a roll bar will greatly diminish the value of the car to the dealer or a public sale.

I don't do much tracking these days. I have a total of over 9,000 track miles in open cars with roll bars, I was hoping the newer cars had enough strength in the roof and pillars to do without the roll bar. Don't all new cars have to meet a fairly strict roll over standard? With the thickness of A pillars getting bigger all the time there should be much more strength in them to sustain a roll over.
Given the kind of people who buy these cars, I think a new owner might actually be appreciative of having the mounting plates and holes already present if you replace the trimmed interior panels or just remove them. And I doubt a dealer would inspect the chassis enough to see the mounting holes if the interior trim was intact.

Doesn't a 6-point harness require using a different seat in the GT350?
Some have used a bracket on the back of the stock mount to run the sub straps up between the seat bottom and seat back and then sit on the straps as the come in from behind. Apparently this has been an SCCA accepted method but I can't verify.
 
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scannon

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I'm not going to put a roll bar in this car so end of thread.
 
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scannon

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^So what is your plan now?
If I decide to keep doing track days I will use my 2016 Miata. It has suspension mods, 4 pot Wilwood brakes on all four corners, a roll bar and a turbocharger.

I do at least one track day a year in the Miata to maintain my membership in Mazdaspeed Motorsports which gives me lots of perks.
 

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They aren’t strong enough. What’s your neck worth? A new carpet and interior panel or two?
My neck is worth a lot. But saying the roof strength is not enough isn't very accurate. In particular, The S550 chassis has a better roof strength rating that is required by law. The law (revised in 2009) requires the roof to handle 3x the vehicles weight the S550 can handle almost 4.5x its weight. Granted this is all just test data but it is reliable data and much more accurate than saying "they aren't strong enough." Roll cages are a great safety item, our champ car has one, its required. Our champ car was also built in early 2000's and does not have many of the safety features cars have today and if it was not a "race car" we would certainly not be ringing every little bit out on the track. Here's what I think, if you are willing to push 10/10th's or more out of a car with especially with stability controls turned off, definitely get a roll bar. All the roll overs I have seen on track are from full on race cars well exceeding limits. Without a proper harness I will not be able to get every little bit out of the car so I will compromise. I am settling on a seat belt lock to keep me somewhat stable. I Won't be doing 10/10th's but I will still have fun and well within my comfort zone for safety.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/roof-strength-test
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/mustang-2-door-coupe
 
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96cobra

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Why am I putting a roll bar in mine? I plan to track it a few times a year and I don't plan on holding back. A lot of the tracks around me are fast, ie, Sebring and Daytona, and high speeds are probable (120-130 in the straights, more at Daytona) and while an accident is unlikely, a simple blown tire at 125mph (or 150+ at Daytona) has a lot of potential for anything to happen, including rolling the car. At that speed the roll bar is a good piece of mind IMO.

I know it's not for everyone, but I think it really fits in this car if you are using it to its potential. $1200 for a cage is cheap when you think about it.
 

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My neck is worth a lot. But saying the roof strength is not enough isn't very accurate. In particular, The S550 chassis has a better roof strength rating that is required by law. The law (revised in 2009) requires the roof to handle 3x the vehicles weight the S550 can handle almost 4.5x its weight. Granted this is all just test data but it is reliable data and much more accurate than saying "they aren't strong enough." Roll cages are a great safety item, our champ car has one, its required. Our champ car was also built in early 2000's and does not have many of the safety features cars have today and if it was not a "race car" we would certainly not be ringing every little bit out on the track. Here's what I think, if you are willing to push 10/10th's or more out of a car with especially with stability controls turned off, definitely get a roll bar. All the roll overs I have seen on track are from full on race cars well exceeding limits. Without a proper harness I will not be able to get every little bit out of the car so I will compromise. I am settling on a seat belt lock to keep me somewhat stable. I Won't be doing 10/10th's but I will still have fun and well within my comfort zone for safety.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/roof-strength-test
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/mustang-2-door-coupe
Harold, it’s nice and stronger, sure, but the car is not strong enough to put a harness in the car without a quality roll bar. That’s all I’m saying. And you must agree if you’re not doing it. The trouble is, it’s not about going 10/10ths. It’s about all the things you can’t control that will kill you. Suspension failures, tire failures, someone hitting you, you name it. Not trying to be dramatic, but anyone considering a harness and/or harness bar without a real roll bar or cage is making a huge mistake on my opinion. No way I would trust that roof to maintain clearance to my helmet if the car is launched onto its top. No way. Last crash I had the g meter quit at 28. How’s that 3,4 or 5x the weight certification work when you land on the roof at 10g’s? It’s not going to work out for you. And neither is a Miata any other tin top for that matter. Keep it stock or do it right with a proper system. BWTFDIK.
 

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I didn't like adding an extra 68 pounds (via a cage), but after seeing first hand the consequences of various mishaps, it is a no brainer. I probably wouldn't go with a harness/cage combo if I were running smaller tracks or doing autocross. However when you are running maximum speeds on a track with many possible failures and more importantly dealing with the uncertainty of other people causing a crash, the benefit of that kind of safety equipment outweighs the drawbacks.
 

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My neck is worth a lot. But saying the roof strength is not enough isn't very accurate. In particular, The S550 chassis has a better roof strength rating that is required by law. The law (revised in 2009) requires the roof to handle 3x the vehicles weight the S550 can handle almost 4.5x its weight. Granted this is all just test data but it is reliable data and much more accurate than saying "they aren't strong enough." Roll cages are a great safety item, our champ car has one, its required. Our champ car was also built in early 2000's and does not have many of the safety features cars have today and if it was not a "race car" we would certainly not be ringing every little bit out on the track. Here's what I think, if you are willing to push 10/10th's or more out of a car with especially with stability controls turned off, definitely get a roll bar. All the roll overs I have seen on track are from full on race cars well exceeding limits. Without a proper harness I will not be able to get every little bit out of the car so I will compromise. I am settling on a seat belt lock to keep me somewhat stable. I Won't be doing 10/10th's but I will still have fun and well within my comfort zone for safety.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/roof-strength-test
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/mustang-2-door-coupe
Hey man, I don't want to be argumentative, but you are completely off base on this one. It doesn't matter what x/10th's you're doing...shit happens...and relying on gov't safety standards for rollover or whatever is simply not enough. Of course you can't do 10/10th's of this car...you're not capable of that...neither am I. But the car is always capable of having a mechanical malfunction...and I've seen human error at 4/10th's of a car's capability. And using champ car anecdotes for the basis of giving folks solid advice on race car safety is complete bs.
 

Zitrosounds

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Harold, it’s nice and stronger, sure, but the car is not strong enough to put a harness in the car without a quality roll bar. That’s all I’m saying. And you must agree if you’re not doing it. The trouble is, it’s not about going 10/10ths. It’s about all the things you can’t control that will kill you. Suspension failures, tire failures, someone hitting you, you name it. Not trying to be dramatic, but anyone considering a harness and/or harness bar without a real roll bar or cage is making a huge mistake on my opinion. No way I would trust that roof to maintain clearance to my helmet if the car is launched onto its top. No way. Last crash I had the g meter quit at 28. How’s that 3,4 or 5x the weight certification work when you land on the roof at 10g’s? It’s not going to work out for you. And neither is a Miata any other tin top for that matter. Keep it stock or do it right with a proper system. BWTFDIK.
I think we are on the same page. Harness and bar is a must. Harness no bar=no way!
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