54,000 Mile Oil Analysis - Increased Lead

mrbillwot

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"2019+ motors use copper-lead main bearings."

Hi Damien, Did Ford Perf. reveal this somewhere? Am curious.
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You have 6000 mi left on warranty, you have these concerns due to the increased Pb content, at the very least I’d take it to your dealer and share that with them for the purpose of documentation...i.e. you are documenting this condition existing while the car is in warranty.
 

Bladex10

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Bro you own a gt350... This day was going to come eventually. Its part of the game and what you sign up for when you buy a racecar with street paint.

So stop worrying save up,3k buy a used 350z for the time being and take the the 350 down and fix it. Or pick up a minivan/pickup off craigslist or Facebook. 2-3k can get u something decent, it's just to get you through the rebuild.

60k miles is a really good run for a 535hp all motor, performance vehicle. Back in the 90s good luck dailying something like that... You'd get a month at best.

You got this bro, its gonna be ok.
Lol. Its always the GT owners who say this dumb shit. If this motor was only designed to go 60k miles, The GT350 wouldnt have even made it to production with the Voodoo motor. The GT350 warranty isnt any different than your GT warranty.
 

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I get what you're saying but that only aligns with practical purchasing. He owns a ZR1 and a GT3, those aren't purchases made by someone that doesn't spend money they don't need to spend. My point is the OP for 3 pages of this thread made it out that the GT350 was the only car for the entire family and left me with the impression he was on a budget and couldn't just afford to dump money in it. When all along, money isn't an issue. If the emotional attachment to the car is so great and money isn't an issue, what's the big deal here?
I don't get why you give a shit what the finances are? It's not relevant to the thread or his questions. And it's none of your business.
 
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UnhandledException

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I don't get why you give a shit what the finances are? It's not relevant to the thread or his questions. And it's none of your business.
Because some people are like that.

It is an unfortunate side effect of our consumerist culture. Just because a person X can afford A, B, and C, automatically it is assumed he/she must be wasteful, careless, and not stress him/herself about one’s property. This is something I seriously cannot stand. A) I would never throw something out if I can fix it and B) Mere fact of not knowing what is wrong with something, anything not just shelby, would keep me going crazy.

I’m the type of guy who polishes his workshoes every single Sunday. Without an exception. When the heels go, I get them fixed. I could just as easily afford a $300 shoe every 3 months, but I could not live with myself.

I am not cheap, I am old school. And I came from not wealthy parents so I learned the meaning of owning good things the hard way.

Actually back to topic

Reading your engine build thread (I am still at page 12 where you say it is $8700 so far). I dont think I could rebuild this engine. It is incredible amount of work and it is probably easier to go buy a crate engine or find a totaled car.

That being said, having replaced the spark plugs this weekend and the fuel filter, here is where I am:

- That strong hesitation at 4500 rpm followed by backfire has disappeared. It was most likely fuel filter because after changing the fuel filter but before plugs, I did many 8250 runs, and hard ones (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th redline) and not a hiccup. I also saw gray fluid pieces come out from the fuel filter I removed when it was draining.

- The spark plugs I removed has lots and lots of oil. Oil is everywhere on the threads up to the nut. Also, every coil once removed had wetness around (oil). Lastly, the tip of each plug white white snowflake like powdered substance.

- After doing this work (plugs and filter), I had a very strange thing happen. Past the secondary cats, where the exhaust clamps are, there was a dripping of very dark muddy oil like substance on the garage floor. After changing the plugs, I idled the car for a few minutes, and I m guessing this substance dripped then. I touched it, its definitely very greasy but very dark black color not brown oil color. Subsequent car rides, there was no substance.

- After changing the plugs, car runs smoother and I did many I mean many redline runs without any knock or any issues.

My plan is to redo the oil sample at 2500 miles and go from there but I think the fuel filter did the trick and I saved my baby so far.
 

Evil_E

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Why do you give a shit? I was asking a question that’s none of your fucking business. Stop being a forum cop. If he was interested in entertaining me with a response he would’ve. He needs you to speak up for him?

And finances matter. You of all people should know this with all your engine work. Sheeez! Got anything better to do old man than troll me?

I don't get why you give a shit what the finances are? It's not relevant to the thread or his questions. And it's none of your business.
 

honeybadger

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Why do you give a shit? I was asking a question that’s none of your fucking business. Stop being a forum cop. If he was interested in entertaining me with a response he would’ve. He needs you to speak up for him?

And finances matter. You of all people should know this with all your engine work. Sheeez! Got anything better to do old man than troll me?
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Actually back to topic

Reading your engine build thread (I am still at page 12 where you say it is $8700 so far). I dont think I could rebuild this engine. It is incredible amount of work and it is probably easier to go buy a crate engine or find a totaled car.

That being said, having replaced the spark plugs this weekend and the fuel filter, here is where I am:

- That strong hesitation at 4500 rpm followed by backfire has disappeared. It was most likely fuel filter because after changing the fuel filter but before plugs, I did many 8250 runs, and hard ones (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th redline) and not a hiccup. I also saw gray fluid pieces come out from the fuel filter I removed when it was draining.

- The spark plugs I removed has lots and lots of oil. Oil is everywhere on the threads up to the nut. Also, every coil once removed had wetness around (oil). Lastly, the tip of each plug white white snowflake like powdered substance.

- After doing this work (plugs and filter), I had a very strange thing happen. Past the secondary cats, where the exhaust clamps are, there was a dripping of very dark muddy oil like substance on the garage floor. After changing the plugs, I idled the car for a few minutes, and I m guessing this substance dripped then. I touched it, its definitely very greasy but very dark black color not brown oil color. Subsequent car rides, there was no substance.

- After changing the plugs, car runs smoother and I did many I mean many redline runs without any knock or any issues.

My plan is to redo the oil sample at 2500 miles and go from there but I think the fuel filter did the trick and I saved my baby so far.
The substance you mention is just condensation plus the residue left in the pipes from oil burn. I wouldn't be worried about that. Normal stuff.

An engine that's not damaged could be rebuilt much cheaper than that - $3-4k easy. I built a race motor, so everything is ratcheted up to 10.
 

Evil_E

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Because some people are like that.

It is an unfortunate side effect of our consumerist culture. Just because a person X can afford A, B, and C, automatically it is assumed he/she must be wasteful, careless, and not stress him/herself about one’s property. This is something I seriously cannot stand. A) I would never throw something out if I can fix it and B) Mere fact of not knowing what is wrong with something, anything not just shelby, would keep me going crazy.

I’m the type of guy who polishes his workshoes every single Sunday. Without an exception. When the heels go, I get them fixed. I could just as easily afford a $300 shoe every 3 months, but I could not live with myself.

I am not cheap, I am old school. And I came from not wealthy parents so I learned the meaning of owning good things the hard way.

Actually back to topic

Reading your engine build thread (I am still at page 12 where you say it is $8700 so far). I dont think I could rebuild this engine. It is incredible amount of work and it is probably easier to go buy a crate engine or find a totaled car.

That being said, having replaced the spark plugs this weekend and the fuel filter, here is where I am:

- That strong hesitation at 4500 rpm followed by backfire has disappeared. It was most likely fuel filter because after changing the fuel filter but before plugs, I did many 8250 runs, and hard ones (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th redline) and not a hiccup. I also saw gray fluid pieces come out from the fuel filter I removed when it was draining.

- The spark plugs I removed has lots and lots of oil. Oil is everywhere on the threads up to the nut. Also, every coil once removed had wetness around (oil). Lastly, the tip of each plug white white snowflake like powdered substance.

- After doing this work (plugs and filter), I had a very strange thing happen. Past the secondary cats, where the exhaust clamps are, there was a dripping of very dark muddy oil like substance on the garage floor. After changing the plugs, I idled the car for a few minutes, and I m guessing this substance dripped then. I touched it, its definitely very greasy but very dark black color not brown oil color. Subsequent car rides, there was no substance.

- After changing the plugs, car runs smoother and I did many I mean many redline runs without any knock or any issues.

My plan is to redo the oil sample at 2500 miles and go from there but I think the fuel filter did the trick and I saved my baby so far.
Whatever dude. You went through 3 pages of bullshit that the 350 was the only family car and getting it fixed or tearing it down was going to be difficult since it’s the only car. I say something about that and instead of acknowledging it, it gets spun into a diatribe of coming from nothing to success. There’s 100’s of us here like that.
 
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UnhandledException

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Whatever dude. You went through 3 pages of bullshit that the 350 was the only family car and getting it fixed or tearing it down was going to be difficult since it’s the only car. I say something about that and instead of acknowledging it, it gets spun into a diatribe of coming from nothing to success. There’s 100’s of us here like that.
I dont think you understand.

First of all please calm down?

Secondly, its not about not having means. Its about not having anyone I can trust with this car. Take it to Ford? No thanks. Take to an independent shop? I dont know any. And why take it anywhere if you can address the issue yourself.

There is also something just as extreme and cool about getting up at 7am and starting this car with its aftermarket exhaust roar. Get your kid and wife in the car and leave for the day as there is tracking this car.

Sometimes I spend more time in this car than any other same place besides home to sleep. This car is part of my life. I racked up 54,500 miles in little over 3 years (3 years and 1.5 month). Thats almost 18,000 miles/year. I am attached to this car and there is nothing wrong with that
 

CrashOverride

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Because some people are like that.

It is an unfortunate side effect of our consumerist culture. Just because a person X can afford A, B, and C, automatically it is assumed he/she must be wasteful, careless, and not stress him/herself about one’s property. This is something I seriously cannot stand. A) I would never throw something out if I can fix it and B) Mere fact of not knowing what is wrong with something, anything not just shelby, would keep me going crazy.

I’m the type of guy who polishes his workshoes every single Sunday. Without an exception. When the heels go, I get them fixed. I could just as easily afford a $300 shoe every 3 months, but I could not live with myself.

I am not cheap, I am old school. And I came from not wealthy parents so I learned the meaning of owning good things the hard way.

Actually back to topic

Reading your engine build thread (I am still at page 12 where you say it is $8700 so far). I dont think I could rebuild this engine. It is incredible amount of work and it is probably easier to go buy a crate engine or find a totaled car.

That being said, having replaced the spark plugs this weekend and the fuel filter, here is where I am:

- That strong hesitation at 4500 rpm followed by backfire has disappeared. It was most likely fuel filter because after changing the fuel filter but before plugs, I did many 8250 runs, and hard ones (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th redline) and not a hiccup. I also saw gray fluid pieces come out from the fuel filter I removed when it was draining.

- The spark plugs I removed has lots and lots of oil. Oil is everywhere on the threads up to the nut. Also, every coil once removed had wetness around (oil). Lastly, the tip of each plug white white snowflake like powdered substance.

- After doing this work (plugs and filter), I had a very strange thing happen. Past the secondary cats, where the exhaust clamps are, there was a dripping of very dark muddy oil like substance on the garage floor. After changing the plugs, I idled the car for a few minutes, and I m guessing this substance dripped then. I touched it, its definitely very greasy but very dark black color not brown oil color. Subsequent car rides, there was no substance.

- After changing the plugs, car runs smoother and I did many I mean many redline runs without any knock or any issues.

My plan is to redo the oil sample at 2500 miles and go from there but I think the fuel filter did the trick and I saved my baby so far.

Unrelated - Good for you on your success. My buddy is what I would consider quite well off and is like you. He will duct-tape holes in his work gloves and re-use scraps of paper instead of post-its. I am not in any way saying this as a bad thing because although I make about half what my buddy does, I am also the same way. Those that are wealthy through knowledge usually are that way. It's the "YouTube Influencer" millionaires (And the like) that have the everything's disposable mentality and think nothing of dumping their car the first time it needs any work done.

If there is oil on the threads, but not up to the tip, then you may have a small cam cover leak, spark plug tube leak or maybe just spilled some oil once. It's not really a huge issue. If the oil is on the inside, where the electrode is, then there is a problem. But, it sounds to me like all of the oil was "above" (Outside) the combustion chamber. It sounds to me like you described an ashy-colored spark plug.

Us old timer's used spark plugs back in the day to "tune" a car. Reading the spark plugs tells you a lot about what's happening in the combustion chamber. If you attach a pic, we could all tell you what we think, or you can compare it to pictures like on this chart. It's possible you are describing the "Overheated" plug, but I would venture to say it's just ash deposits, and they are for the most part normal. If you put a lot of gas additives in the tank, then you will see more of this.

The stuff that dripped was water. Post-cats, your exhaust has been converted to H2O + CO2 + NOx (And a bunch of other things). The hot H2O in suspension (read: steam) condenses on the "relatively" cool exhaust wall, and has a tendency to drip out. The black gunk is carbon. If you look at the bottom of your muffler there are probably some weep holes that also leak the water/carbon mix. If you took apart the system, you would find it at each clamp.

Glad to hear the voodoo child is back a' rockin!
 
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UnhandledException

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Unrelated - Good for you on your success. My buddy is what I would consider quite well off and is like you. He will duct-tape holes in his work gloves and re-use scraps of paper instead of post-its. I am not in any way saying this as a bad thing because although I make about half what my buddy does, I am also the same way. Those that are wealthy through knowledge usually are that way. It's the "YouTube Influencer" millionaires (And the like) that have the everything's disposable mentality and think nothing of dumping their car the first time it needs any work done.

If there is oil on the threads, but not up to the tip, then you may have a small cam cover leak, spark plug tube leak or maybe just spilled some oil once. It's not really a huge issue. If the oil is on the inside, where the electrode is, then there is a problem. But, it sounds to me like all of the oil was "above" (Outside) the combustion chamber. It sounds to me like you described an ashy-colored spark plug.

Us old timer's used spark plugs back in the day to "tune" a car. Reading the spark plugs tells you a lot about what's happening in the combustion chamber. If you attach a pic, we could all tell you what we think, or you can compare it to pictures like on this chart. It's possible you are describing the "Overheated" plug, but I would venture to say it's just ash deposits, and they are for the most part normal. If you put a lot of gas additives in the tank, then you will see more of this.

The stuff that dripped was water. Post-cats, your exhaust has been converted to H2O + CO2 + NOx (And a bunch of other things). The hot H2O in suspension (read: steam) condenses on the "relatively" cool exhaust wall, and has a tendency to drip out. The black gunk is carbon. If you look at the bottom of your muffler there are probably some weep holes that also leak the water/carbon mix. If you took apart the system, you would find it at each clamp.

Glad to hear the voodoo child is back a' rockin!
Thank you for the long post. I am going to post a picture of one of the plugs tomorrow but basically the tip where the spark takes place is dry. Its the threads that screw on to the engine head that have oil. And this oil is not sporadic, but rather on every single thread. Its as if some dunked the threads in motor oil. This oil is also equally consistent on every plug. Its not like only one has this.

looking at the chart you provided, it appears as though my spark plug might be normal. It is not as bad as the ones that appear corroded there.

I am just wondering if this local gas station I used briefly for a month or two had anything to do with this lead as well as the hesitation/backfire I experienced. Thats the only thing I changed in my routine in 54,500 miles since car had 2 miles. Could they have lead in their 93 octane gas? This is a no name local gas station. Maybe their 93 octane is a bad 93 octane that has some sort of a booster on a 89 octane. The place itself is actually quite clean and the people who work there are very nice and building is brand new so it puzzles me, but I bet not many 93 octane buyers go there.
 

CrashOverride

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Well the problem that you run into is if the spark plug tube has some oil in it, as you pull the plug out, it coats the threads. It's slightly possible it's anti-seize if they are not original plugs -- but I've never seen any left when I re-do my own plugs. And I use high quality copper anti-seize. If you had oil in the combustion chamber it would either be a lot of ash, or wet/greasy or dry/graphite-ey tips. The color and shape of the insulator that is inside the combustion chamber is what's the most important.

There shouldn't be any lead in the gas, but if they sell racing fuel and somehow screwed up and dumped some in the premium tank, then it's possible. Many racing fuel blends have lead in them.

If you still have the old plugs, and were careful with them when you took them out (e.g. didn't drop or throw them), run it through a spark plug feeler gauge and see what the gap was. I don't buy into 100k plugs. I just took out plugs in my van that has 54k miles of very easy driving (Although a lot of engine hours). In any case, stock gap was 0.040" these were between 0.050 and 0.055. That's pretty far off, and that's with stock (Quality) iridium-tipped plugs.

If your gap is off really far, and you're high into the rev range where the coil doesn't have a lot of "recovery" time, it might have a hard time building enough power (Voltage and amperage) to bridge the gap. Just a far out there theory, but for boosted cars, if the gap is off by even 0.05 you can "blow out" the spark and have all kinds of problems, so maybe that would apply when you're singing soprano at 8000 glorious RPM's :)
 

hperea

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I dont think you understand.

First of all please calm down?

Secondly, its not about not having means. Its about not having anyone I can trust with this car. Take it to Ford? No thanks. Take to an independent shop? I dont know any. And why take it anywhere if you can address the issue yourself.

There is also something just as extreme and cool about getting up at 7am and starting this car with its aftermarket exhaust roar. Get your kid and wife in the car and leave for the day as there is tracking this car.

Sometimes I spend more time in this car than any other same place besides home to sleep. This car is part of my life. I racked up 54,500 miles in little over 3 years (3 years and 1.5 month). Thats almost 18,000 miles/year. I am attached to this car and there is nothing wrong with that
We are adults here.....right?
Reading all your posts is like seen myself on them. I always take care of all my things and the ones that are my "favorite" ....MORE!!. That is my OCD side..lol. I think I can relay is what I mean.
It seems you have taken care of your car and you are trying to do as much as you can to resolve the issue. I believe is not about money...well maybe, but also think about protecting your asset. My point is...if the car is under warranty, take it to the dealer. I know you don't want to, but any other mechanic or solution will not be certify/approved by FORD. Let them see it. Document everything and just if ....only if... something happens in the future your "asset" is protected.
I wish you and your "GT baby"nothing but the best and continue building memories.
 
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UnhandledException

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Update: I did an oil change at 3100 miles. Lead level came back at 7. For this to be apples to apples comparison vs the last oil change which was at 4500 miles and came back 23, interpolating 7 is 10. So level came down by more than half.

Also the oil consumption that had gotten progressively worse is now back to how it was (1 qt per 1000-1250 miles) since car was brand new.

I changed the plugs and fuel filter when this oil was changed. My plan right now is to change oil at 4500 miles and see but I dont think the engine is on its way out.
 

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