5.2L V8 Ford Voodoo Engine Will Not Be Offered As A Crate

[ecoboost321]

If I had the budget, would build a Ford GT40 clone with a Voodoo V8 and Tremec dual clutch transmission. What an awesome ride/experience that would be

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[Hack]

I would pay good money for a custom crank and cams to give this motor a proper U-D-D-U configuration.

You would want to split the intake by banks and use 2 throttle bodies as well. I agree it would be fun to build and try out.

Because the unique sounds is a side effect of a design that has all the negative harmonics of both a traditional cross plane and a traditional flat plane crank design. I sont know of any other flat plane crank engines with 5.2 liters of displacement so it will still be unique, but maybe it won't shake itself apart.

I also want to hook the Tremec DCT to it so I'm full of all the wrong desires compared to the usual GT350 owner.

The unique sound is from the unequal length header design. It has nothing to do with the crank arrangement. If you install equal length headers on a Voodoo, it sounds like any other FPC engine.

I've never heard of a Voodoo shaking itself apart. HoneyBadger's engine had the crank snout fail, but he was using an aftermarket damper AND using the engine extremely hard. I wouldn't blame Ford for that.

 

[Rev Happy]

I think Ford gambled on a different flat plane crank design and it didn't pan out. Sure it works good enough but even Chevy used a conventional UDDU throw design. I'll bet they don't have trouble with oil filters vibrating loose. I also believe the harmonics from the UDUD crank were a surprise and Ford did not want to spend the money to properly dampen them.

From the GM chief engineer:

"Unfortunately, the downside to the flat-plane crank is that “it shakes like a paint shaker. Horizontal shaking forces are horrendous and so difficult to deal with. As an example, Ford did a flat-plane 5.2-Liter V8 for a number of years, and they had a story on the web where the oil filter was actually spun off the engine from the shaking forces. And we thought, wow, that’s pretty hilarious, we would never make that mistake…until we made that mistake.”

Jordan tells the crowd that at this early point in the program, they were working with their first development engines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each. He recalls the number 2 engine was on the dyno when all of a sudden the engine lost oil pressure and failed. Looking into the test cell, they see the engine’s oil filter was on the ground. Thinking that someone forgot to tighten it, they added some safety wire and set up a camera to watch the filter on another engine. Sure enough, as the engine got up to speed, the filter started to spin off the motor.

“It was then we realized it wasn’t going to be easy. And so for five years of working on all the vibrations and all the different issues,” Jordan says before talking about even the smallest things like threaded fuel injector connectors that were being shaken apart and causing engine codes and other coil issues as a result. “It was a bear dealing with vibrations.”

I'm curious to see how the new Z06 motor turns out. They had a lot of time in development and supposedly threw all the best parts on there. A lot of people are quick to trash the Voodoo but you got to give props to the engineers for making it work with the budget restrictions they were dealing with.

The unique sound is from the unequal length header design. It has nothing to do with the crank arrangement. If you install equal length headers on a Voodoo, it sounds like any other FPC engine.

I wish they would have done equal length headers from the factory but in general I think the Voodoo sounds better in the low to mid range than any stock modern V8 Ferrari. The F355 is still the to me though in terms of V8 sound.

 

[Voodoo Velocity]

Automotive manufacturers are required by law to offer OEM replacement parts for 10 years. Being that the Voodoo is specific to the GT350 model, the choice to not offer a crate Voodoo is likely in line with the need to keep reserves for replacements. Second, being the decision by Ford to keep the Voodoo specific to the GT350. This is just OEM Supply chain decisions, and not a response to anyone who is projecting the Voodoo as a failure. The praise of automotive press, professional drivers and engineers disagree. Anyone who expects engineering perfection at any price point will likely deem every mechanical product a failure. *sour grapes*

 

[K4fxd]

but the accountants didn't allow it.

This

A lot of people are quick to trash the Voodoo but you got to give props to the engineers for making it work with the budget restrictions they were dealing with.

"I" have never trashed the VooDoo. Just pointed out some of it's flaws.

 

[ice445]

You would want to split the intake by banks and use 2 throttle bodies as well. I agree it would be fun to build and try out.


The unique sound is from the unequal length header design. It has nothing to do with the crank arrangement. If you install equal length headers on a Voodoo, it sounds like any other FPC engine.

I've never heard of a Voodoo shaking itself apart. HoneyBadger's engine had the crank snout fail, but he was using an aftermarket damper AND using the engine extremely hard. I wouldn't blame Ford for that.

I don't think that's true. If you change the crank you have to change the firing order. So that plus the header design gives the unique sound. That's how I understand it at least.

 

[Hack]

I don't think that's true. If you change the crank you have to change the firing order. So that plus the header design gives the unique sound. That's how I understand it at least.

I can see what you are saying. Even though you still have banks firing left right left etc., the headers might do something different due to the order of the cylinders firing. It still wouldn't sound like a FPC, but the sound might be changed somewhat.

 

[btown93]

Your obviously a mechanical engineer, right? Ford’s issue with the voodoo was a hand built motor the likes of Merc., Porsche, etc. but produced with a Ford supply chain. Straight from the horse’s mouth, head of the Ford Performance program while at the Track Attack. As for not spending the money. It’s very common knowledge when there has been an issue with any of these engine’s Ford get’s it rectified and replaced quickly. It always cracks me up when a bunch of bench racers on the internet some how think they are more qualified then the actual dozens of engineers that developed a particular program from scratch. I’ll leave alone it coming from those that don’t even own or in almost all cases’s have zero first hand experience with these cars.

I think it's a stretch to suggest that the issue with the voodoo is that it was "a hand built motor with Ford's supply chain" Some of the most storied engines in Ford's history have been built in this same fashion. 1996-1998 Cobra, 99-01 Cobra, 03-04 Cobra, 07-10 GT500, 11-12 GT500, 13-14 GT500, and obviously Voodoo and Predator. Is the Voodoo as bad as it's made out to be? probably not. Is the failure rate higher than the engines listed above? Possibly. The internet and forums were not what they are now in some of those earlier engines and that magnifies the situation. At the same time, by most accounts, the FPC vibration is a challenge, as evidenced by the words of the ZO6 engineer. Even Ford Performance has spoken about the challenges and that they had to do "30" things outside of the motor to make it live. This is the reason that they won't do a crate engine. The engine itself has to work with the various dampeners and mounts unique to the 350.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...l-flat-plane-crank-v8-500-hp-400-lb-ft.12287/

 

[Cobra Jet]

Automotive manufacturers are required by law to offer OEM replacement parts for 10 years. Being that the Voodoo is specific to the GT350 model, the choice to not offer a crate Voodoo is likely in line with the need to keep reserves for replacements. Second, being the decision by Ford to keep the Voodoo specific to the GT350. This is just OEM Supply chain decisions, and not a response to anyone who is projecting the Voodoo as a failure. The praise of automotive press, professional drivers and engineers disagree. Anyone who expects engineering perfection at any price point will likely deem every mechanical product a failure. *sour grapes*

And already knowing this myself, regarding the 10 year "afterlife" of parts availability for any manufactured Ford, here's a few questions that remain:

The "oldest" GT350 is now hitting the 7 year mark.

- What will happen to overall 5.2 VooDoo parts availability another 10-20 years from today ("VooDoo" being the engine only)? Will GT350 Owners be able to source 5.2 VooDoo engine replacement parts for XYZ failure OR XYZ repairs due to age?

- GT350 as unique as they are, as far as the "limited" production units by year, will those vehicles be extremely expensive to maintain (again from a VooDoo engine perspective only) when those VooDoo parts aren't available any more from various sources?

I mean really think about it - Ford didn't produce an extra engine and set it aside for every GT350 built. No Crate, also means no abundance of VooDoo engines on pallets or specific parts either. There's not a 20,000 sq.ft. facility somewhere packed wall to wall with 5.2 VooDoos waiting to be put into a GT350 "just because".

A 5.2 VooDoo that is in a garage bubble and not being driven - that owner does not know if that engine will grenade or not. Let's be real, a car with practically no miles on it, *could* have internal issues that just haven't popped up yet because it's not being used. In no way am I implying every 5.2 VooDoo is a ticking time bomb - but you have to genuinely look at it from all perspectives and take into account a garage bubble GT350 isn't immune to a possible engine problem or future repair.

Where does sourcing a 5.2 VooDoo or it's specific parts leave any S550 GT350 owner in the future?

 

[Point45]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that the issue with the voodoo is that it was "a hand built motor with Ford's supply chain" Some of the most storied engines in Ford's history have been built in this same fashion. 1996-1998 Cobra, 99-01 Cobra, 03-04 Cobra, 07-10 GT500, 11-12 GT500, 13-14 GT500, and obviously Voodoo and Predator. Is the Voodoo as bad as it's made out to be? probably not. Is the failure rate higher than the engines listed above? Possibly. The internet and forums were not what they are now in some of those earlier engines and that magnifies the situation. At the same time, by most accounts, the FPC vibration is a challenge, as evidenced by the words of the ZO6 engineer. Even Ford Performance has spoken about the challenges and that they had to do "30" things outside of the motor to make it live. This is the reason that they won't do a crate engine. The engine itself has to work with the various dampeners and mounts unique to the 350.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...l-flat-plane-crank-v8-500-hp-400-lb-ft.12287/

Im going to say this is the most likely scenario. Usually the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Also theres an interview somewhere where another reason for the unconventional firing order was intake packaging. I want to think that with some clever work they could have gotten around it.

Engineers are constrained by corporate and to a degree they need to be. If you let an engineer to a clean sheet design without constraints the end result is going to be expensive.

As much as I love the gt350 and its engine, its a design of compromise and emotion. Not utility and function.

 

[Hack]

As much as I love the gt350 and its engine, its a design of compromise and emotion. Not utility and function.

It's no Iron Duke.

 

[460Fred]

It's no Iron Duke.

Thank goodness.

 

[svttim]

I think Ford gambled on a different flat plane crank design and it didn't pan out. Sure it works good enough but even Chevy used a conventional UDDU throw design. I'll bet they don't have trouble with oil filters vibrating loose. I also believe the harmonics from the UDUD crank were a surprise and Ford did not want to spend the money to properly dampen them.

Ford did not want the sound of the UDDU configuration. They wanted a more conventional muscle sound. The Corvette on the other hand is now very European so the sound fits. Not sure what didnt pan out. Ive owned two and had zero issues

 

[UpACurb]

And already knowing this myself, regarding the 10 year "afterlife" of parts availability for any manufactured Ford, here's a few questions that remain:

The "oldest" GT350 is now hitting the 7 year mark.

- What will happen to overall 5.2 VooDoo parts availability another 10-20 years from today ("VooDoo" being the engine only)? Will GT350 Owners be able to source 5.2 VooDoo engine replacement parts for XYZ failure OR XYZ repairs due to age?

- GT350 as unique as they are, as far as the "limited" production units by year, will those vehicles be extremely expensive to maintain (again from a VooDoo engine perspective only) when those VooDoo parts aren't available any more from various sources?

I mean really think about it - Ford didn't produce an extra engine and set it aside for every GT350 built. No Crate, also means no abundance of VooDoo engines on pallets or specific parts either. There's not a 20,000 sq.ft. facility somewhere packed wall to wall with 5.2 VooDoos waiting to be put into a GT350 "just because".

A 5.2 VooDoo that is in a garage bubble and not being driven - that owner does not know if that engine will grenade or not. Let's be real, a car with practically no miles on it, *could* have internal issues that just haven't popped up yet because it's not being used. In no way am I implying every 5.2 VooDoo is a ticking time bomb - but you have to genuinely look at it from all perspectives and take into account a garage bubble GT350 isn't immune to a possible engine problem or future repair.

Where does sourcing a 5.2 VooDoo or it's specific parts leave any S550 GT350 owner in the future?

Well speaking from experience as the prior owner of a 67 Shelby GT500 that I owned for about 20ish plus years- TONS of unique parts to that car- and remember that was a 1 year car only - compared to a 6 year run of GT350s (you can almost combine R and non R production numbers when talking engine parts as mostly similar)

So was it easy to find parts for my 67- no....but it wasnt impossible - you get after market companies like Tony Branda as well that step up to the plate with some extremely authentic reproduction parts (the nice thing is while supply was sometimes limited at Tony Branda even- they always gave priority to those that owned real Shelbys vs those trying to build clones)

So if the last GT350 was built in 2020- we have 8 years left of being able to get parts from Ford- 8 years......

I guess I should also mention that I have a friend that owns a show that works on "Pebble Beach" cars - many time talking about 1 of 1 prototype cars- yet they fabricate parts- keep them running- is it cheap? no- but you have to pay to play

Tons of FUD being spread in this thread by people that dont even own GT350s-

At this rate gas might be so expensive in 8 years- even if we can find replacement engines- might not matter if we cant afford to drive them lol

 

[Blwnsmoke]

Automotive manufacturers are required by law to offer OEM replacement parts for 10 years. Being that the Voodoo is specific to the GT350 model, the choice to not offer a crate Voodoo is likely in line with the need to keep reserves for replacements. Second, being the decision by Ford to keep the Voodoo specific to the GT350. This is just OEM Supply chain decisions, and not a response to anyone who is projecting the Voodoo as a failure. The praise of automotive press, professional drivers and engineers disagree. Anyone who expects engineering perfection at any price point will likely deem every mechanical product a failure. *sour grapes*

No they are not. That is a myth. They are only required to cover the warranty period.

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