400HP 2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost

[Nazgul]

It was inevitable that "it ain't sh** if ain't a V8" knuckledraggers would chime it. Note to OP and moderator this should be in the EB engine sub-forum.

What did you expect? Most mustang enthusiasts revolve around the v8, as it is the same with all American muscle. Of course some are going to look down their nose at the EBM because it doesn't follow the traditional muscle v8 style.

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[Ecoboosted]

Awesome! can't wait to see them progress even further.

 

[Supa LA]

How wrong and arrogant you are. FYI, the 2.3 EB is based on the Mazda L engine family (last time I checked Mazda is still an import) and these mods add up to more like 140-160 over stock RWHP.

160whp over stock? So you're telling me the EB stock makes 240ish? Hmm.

And the engine may be derived from that mazda, but it's isn't the same. Am I wrong?

Again, I'm not bashing the EB! ! Just trying to make that clear, here.

 

[Marino]

Riddle me this, what other turbo 4 currently on sale can push 400whp on a stock turbo besides the EBM, Sti and Evo

Well if you exclude the 4 cylinder you can buy used N54 and N55 BMWs for the same price and they easily make that kind of power. A full bolt-on N54 can make over 400whp with the stock turbo. They still haven't found the limit yet even with aftermarket turbos.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Unless I'm reading the list wrong - this isn't the stock turbo.

From that page:
In fact, here is the list of goodies the engine received:

• FFTEC Turbo System — Utilizing a small frame BorgWarner EFR turbo
• FFTEC EcoCore intercooler
• FFTEC Chargepipe system
• FFTEC Intake System
• FFTEC Downpipe
• FFTEC Exhaust System
• Custom Accessport calibration by FFTEC’s Calibration staff

My bad, I read that wrong.

 

[tomas6791]

There is hope for the 4 banger, I remember the 80's SVO's where awesome cars.

 

[FreddyG]

I'm not sure what drag is on these motors, but using 15% for the calculation and figuring the motor at 460 bhp, this motor at 400 to the wheels makes 200 horses per liter! That's pretty darn good if you ask me!

To get the same hp/liter, the 5.0 would have to make 1000 bhp!

The EB motor might turn out to be pretty special, once there are more mods for it. It's still a new piece though, but I'd guess there are quite a few companies with products in the pipeline and time will tell what its capable of and to its weak links.

I personally like the V8 better (many other reasons, but to me, it sounds like a Mustang should, once the exhaust is changed). If they did an EB V6, then my mind might change!

Just thinking out loud here! :cheers:

To some it's just more fun. Most of us who even mod will probably just get a good tune and maybe exhaust or intake so it's not like everyone is trying to build a track monster.

If I make 330hp and 360tq at the wheels and still average 24-25mpg in daily driving I have a daily driving monster

Here's the thing there is that once you get to the point that you think that you'll be Happy with, that won't be enough! Modding NEVER stops(this is coming from experience as having "Been there, Done that")!

It's a Sickness and I'm even a member of Modaholics Anonymous....and we're Always accepting new members!

The price gap between base EB and base GT is $7k. No. With $7k in mods the EB will be beyond 550 HP. That's enough for new internals (1.8k), turbo (3.5k), and exhaust (1.3k).

I agree with Supa LA!

Don't forget to add labor to that (unless you can build your own shortblock, then I stand corrected) and fueling upgrades and 10-15% more just because stuff happens when modding. You'll see that $7k goes pretty quickly!

Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Trackaholic]

Keep in mind that a stock GT does not make this much to the wheels, so if you want a GT to compare, you'll need to spend extra on mods for that as well. So, you may end up pretty close in price to a stock GT but with lighter weight, better fuel economy, and better performance. In that sense it is pretty impressive, especially taking into account the results with an even larger turbo.

-T

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Keep in mind that a stock GT does not make this much to the wheels, so if you want a GT to compare, you'll need to spend extra on mods for that as well. So, you may end up pretty close in price to a stock GT but with lighter weight, better fuel economy, and better performance. In that sense it is pretty impressive, especially taking into account the results with an even larger turbo.

-T

Um, yeah... but if you build boost to that extent in an engine not designed for it, you're going to need to rebuild the entire engine within 10,000 miles. A GT will keep making that power for 200,000 miles.

 

[04SloSnake]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12744

And this car is far from being a complete build. Stock fuel system and all. Take a look at the graph on page 3, and you will see they got almost 200rwhp over stock. Yep, nothing impressive about that...

 

[Blk2015GT]

The price gap between base EB and base GT is $7k. No. With $7k in mods the EB will be beyond 550 HP. That's enough for new internals (1.8k), turbo (3.5k), and exhaust (1.3k).

You're negating a lot of other things. The base Ecoboost has tiny brakes. Need the PP to get the brakes that come stock on even the base the GT; PP suspension to get to where the stock GT is. That's more $ bringing it $2,000 closer to the $32k the GT starts at right there at $28,100 vs. $32,300 with nothing else added to it.

You can dump all the money you want into an engine but you have to beef up the rest of the car too that the car rides on- brakes, suspension, sway bars, etc. with items the GT already comes with stock; including reinforcing the engine internals which isn't cheap. Gearing ratio too. The Ecoboost wasn't built out of the box to ride with 400+hp like the GT was designed to do (up to 600-700 on stock engine actually with the Boss forged internals people are getting by with just fine). You have no clue how long the build can even sustain this HP before the engine blows, it's brand new to everyone. Their setup could last a year and the engine blows. The guys building it have the money to rebuild it 5 times over no problem, does everyone else here thinking about doing it? Point is that it may not even be sustainable power over time.

That's also assuming you have the skill and equipment to do all of the work yourself with no labor costs which 99%+ or more of people here or otherwise don't have. Really you cannot build this type of a performance/race Ecoboost for the difference between it and a base GT because of the other parts outside of the power makers you will need to beef up. $4,200 won't get you there, even if you can do the labor yourself. That's assuming that the Eco PP gets the stock GT goodies needed in sway/suspension, etc. beside the 4 piston GT brakes. Also will need at least the 3.55 Eco PP gearing for more HP.

You're talking almost $40k with labor on a Eco PP- more than a well equipped GT plus bolt on mods putting down 440-450 at the wheels with no risk of blowing up.

 

[Asharus]

i had a bolt-on stock turbo 2011 WRX before my 5.0 that was on E85 and was pushing 350 wheel and 370 torque. then i got tired of losing sleep at night not knowing if my engine was gonna blow.

there's just too many things that can go wrong when you start modding your engine. i just learned the other day that another one of the guys in our local subaru group blew his engine that had similar mods. another one blew his shortly after he got the same mods i got.

the EB is looking good though, hopefully it wont have the shortcomings of a subaru EJ25x.

 

[Anthony@HTM]

Coming from Turboed cars I can see the issues at hand here.

I was open minded between the GTPP or EBPP. The power delivery of the N/A V8 wasn't for me yet, maybe in the future I'll go N/A.

As far as upsides and downsides was having less weight over the front end.

Longevity of these motors really depends on how you treat the car as a whole.

There are 100s if not 1000s of Evos well over 100k miles that have been making 350awhp+ on the stock block. With good maintenance and a solid tune a modified turbo car can really last. The guys who will strap on a massive turbo, e85 etc etc and hunt for 500+hp on stock internals and blow it is what gives turbo motors a bad name.

I believe the GTPP and EBPP had a 7k or so difference in price. I knew in the long term I'd supercharge or turbo the V8 and it would cost 4k or so which isn't bad. But at the same time I would want to do suspension, drivetrain components and other modifications to get the rest of the car up to speed.

Whereas I figured I'd spend 7k on the Ecoboost and get the suspension dialed, and drivetrain taken care of along with a nice modest turbo upgrade to get me to around 350whp or so.

So far knock on wood the car has been good to me. My only concern with the ecoboost is this damn integrated exhaust manifold which is making these oil temps going up higher than I like although they are within spec.

With the V8 you have so much more heat capacity so you can make more power and not make the cooling system take a crap. There's also that great V8 sound!

Either way I don't think there's a wrong way to go. The ecoboost makes the cost of entry so much easier on the people looking to get into a mustang without paying the GT price. Both motors are really moving as far as development so I'm sure to what seems the biggest issue on the ecoboost which is fueling will be solved soon!

 

[dragonacc]

I've had 8 Mustangs and all of them except my 15 have been V8s. I think it's funny that people want to talk about wasting money on this or that. GT350 guys will be saying the same thing to GT guys soon...

Just buy what you like and do what you like with your own money. And don't get your feelings hurt if a lower trim car blows your doors off at some point...

 

[cosmo]

You're negating a lot of other things. The base Ecoboost has tiny brakes. Need the PP to get the brakes that come stock on even the base the GT; PP suspension to get to where the stock GT is. That's more $ bringing it $2,000 closer to the $32k the GT starts at right there at $28,100 vs. $32,300 with nothing else added to it.

You can dump all the money you want into an engine but you have to beef up the rest of the car too that the car rides on- brakes, suspension, sway bars, etc. with items the GT already comes with stock; including reinforcing the engine internals which isn't cheap. The Ecoboost wasn't built out of the box to ride with 400+hp like the GT was designed to do (up to 600-700 on stock engine actually with the Boss forged internals people are getting by with just fine). You have no clue how long the build can even sustain this HP before the engine blows, it's brand new to everyone. Their setup could last a year and the engine blows. The guys building it have the money to rebuild it 5 times over no problem, does everyone else here thinking about doing it? Point is that it may not even be sustainable power over time.

That's also assuming you have the skill and equipment to do all of the work yourself with no labor costs which 99%+ or more of people here or otherwise don't have. Really you cannot build this type of a performance/race Ecoboost for the difference between it and a base GT because of the other parts outside of the power makers you will need to beef up. $4,200 won't get you there, even if you can do the labor yourself. That's assuming that the Eco PP gets the stock GT goodies needed in sway/suspension, etc. beside the 4 piston GT brakes.

You're talking almost $40k with labor on a Eco PP- more than a well equipped GT plus bolt on mods putting down 440-450 at the wheels with no risk of blowing up.

You were saying that the price difference between the GT and EB potentially wouldn't allow an EB to pass 400 HP. That's the point I was making.

For an all around car which compares to the stock GT, including track and straight away, you don't need to spend nearly 7k. Adding the PP for the EB ($2k, which includes the 4 piston brakes along with upgraded radiator and suspension), and instead going with a build similar to Tittermary (Livernois tune [600], CAI [350], and T-stat[160], which ran a 12.7 on stock tires) still puts you in competition with the stock GT with $3890 left to spare. Sure, the GT can put a few bolts on and a tune for around $1000, but then they're at a tire disadvantage because they're bone stock and don't have the PP. ;)

Invest in a DP (400), and an intercooler (600) as well and a bolt on EB will be running with slightly modified GTs no problem, unless you're doing a roll from 60. At an autocross track? That EB will take the base GT, and more than likely a slightly modded GT as well.

I have the skills and tools to do a job like swapping internals on an engine, so for me, I don't hafta worry about labor. Sure, that may not be feasible for everyone, but is paying a shop thousands of dollars to do something worth it? Learn it yourself, and then you can do your own work on your vehicles. Saves you a lottttt of money in the long run. And if a job ever comes that you can't handle, at least you know you won't get taken advantage of at a shop as you'll know what you're talking about.

The GT is set up nicely. Ford did a lot of modifications to the 5.0L that is handling boost very well, and will also support a N/A build nicely as well. That's perfect for a lot of people, no doubt. That's just an expensive beast. A lot of people put a supercharger on their car without touching the suspension, tires, or anything. You also have to remember, a vehicle putting down 600 HP is going to snap those driveshafts. I would replace those things for sure if I was launching off the line with slicks and had more than 500 ft-lbs.

If you're looking for a fun, mid-low 12s car, both the GT and EB will be able to accomplish that with close costs. As soon as you go lower than that, I feel you'll start to see that price really skyrocket on either car.

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