22 GT and Mach down 10hp… Is this true?

[Epiphany]

I ventured over to CARB's site, looking to download the '22 emissions certifications and compare them to '21 as the standards for the applicable tests run are listed. That way it may be evident as to which standard Ford had to address. Interestingly, CARB made some changes to their site that in my view are intended to complicate and obfuscate. Looks like at this point in time, Ford shows only 6 certs for gas engines and 5 for 85% Ethanol. The '22 5.0L engine in the Mustang is not showing as being certified yet.

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[Meatball]

No way anyone will feel that difference if the shape of the torque curve is the same. If a manual 21 GT traps 115.0mph, an otherwise equivalent 22 will trap 114.2. It’s not going to hurt sales much, and like 93-94 will make a warmed over coyote in the first S650 look slightly better.

 

[Bruce 8858]

Here we go its 1972-73 repeating. Hold on to your high HP cars its gonna be a long time before we get them back.

You never will. 2025 is the last year for the larger engines. Hybrids and electric Mustangs will be all that is offered.

 

[Bruce 8858]

It sure is. Now there is a 30HP difference between a Mach-E GT (performance edition) and a regular GT.

But wait there’s more!!!

The Mach-E GT (performance edition) has 10HP more than a Mach 1.

Forget the S550, go buy those Mach-E’s………….

Hell no! I didn’t spend 60k for a battery powered car. I want something with real horsepower.

 

[Bruce 8858]

I love how this agenda for electric cars is getting pushed so hard when the US infrastructure is not ready at all for this. When I can take an electric car from LA to NY and have multiple charging stations available EVERYWHERE is when I will be comfortable owning an electric car. Hybrids make sense right now but full electric cars do not unless you're required to stay in city driving only or make small trips.

What I don’t like is the government subsidies on the electric cars and the government spending on charging stations to make it more practical. The government didn’t subsidize oil companies to build gas stations when the interstate highway system was built.

 

[oneheadlite]

I ventured over to CARB's site, looking to download the '22 emissions certifications and compare them to '21 as the standards for the applicable tests run are listed. That way it may be evident as to which standard Ford had to address. Interestingly, CARB made some changes to their site that in my view are intended to complicate and obfuscate. Looks like at this point in time, Ford shows only 6 certs for gas engines and 5 for 85% Ethanol. The '22 5.0L engine in the Mustang is not showing as being certified yet.

...Certs??

How about if I just eat the Starlight mints?????????

 

[oneheadlite]

 

[Dfeeds]

Does it come in velocity blue?

 

[Cobra Jet]

What I don’t like is the government subsidies on the electric cars and the government spending on charging stations to make it more practical. The government didn’t subsidize oil companies to build gas stations when the interstate highway system was built.

EVs and charging stations will NEVER be “practical”. You tell me how people in the city, who live in condos and apartments that in some instances do not have indoor, parking garages or covered parking will be able to charge their Ev’s….

HOW. Answer the HOW.

Will there be massive amounts of extension cords hanging out windows snaking over parking lots to EV’s?

I mean let’s get damn real about it - EVs will not ever be as practical as an ICE powered vehicle, period.

The first massive storm that rolls through and knocks out power grids for days OR massive floods that will totally destroy ANY free standing charging station from being operational ever again - will interrupt ANY EV Owner’s LIFE.

Imagine Police, Fire, EMT, Towing and Utility Co’s that think it’s great converting to EV, only to be stuck DEAD when a massive power outage and/or flood affects their region.

Good luck trying to get critical needs patients to Hospitals with EV Ambulances that will be immobile due to no way to charge when needed during or after a major storm event… or power grid failure due to “X”.

Everyone (Govt push and forcing Auto Manufacturers into “play or pay”) has their heads stuck so far up their asses with this “EV” movement - without seeing the big picture. The damage being done to the earth by way of mining the necessary materials for massive battery packs, excessive wiring needed for motor windings, to the absolute resulting pollution from dead EVs will be far greater than keeping ICE as is, as it has been for the last 100+ years.

Practical…

 

[RocketGuy3]

EVs and charging stations will NEVER be “practical”. You tell me how people in the city, who live in condos and apartments that in some instances do not have indoor, parking garages or covered parking will be able to charge their Ev’s….

HOW. Answer the HOW.

Will there be massive amounts of extension cords hanging out windows snaking over parking lots to EV’s?

I mean let’s get damn real about it - EVs will not ever be as practical as an ICE powered vehicle, period.

The first massive storm that rolls through and knocks out power grids for days OR massive floods that will totally destroy ANY free standing charging station from being operational ever again - will interrupt ANY EV Owner’s LIFE.

Imagine Police, Fire, EMT, Towing and Utility Co’s that think it’s great converting to EV, only to be stuck DEAD when a massive power outage and/or flood affects their region.

Good luck trying to get critical needs patients to Hospitals with EV Ambulances that will be immobile due to no way to charge when needed during or after a major storm event… or power grid failure due to “X”.

Everyone (Govt push and forcing Auto Manufacturers into “play or pay”) has their heads stuck so far up their asses with this “EV” movement - without seeing the big picture. The damage being done to the earth by way of mining the necessary materials for massive battery packs, excessive wiring needed for motor windings, to the absolute resulting pollution from dead EVs will be far greater than keeping ICE as is, as it has been for the last 100+ years.

Practical…

I think you're failing to see the forest through the trees.

For one, parking lots can be redesigned/rebuilt to have charging ports at each parking spot (many already have).

For another, a huge chunk of the population already lives in places that can charge their EVs as it is, and for those people, EVs are practically superior in almost every way:

1. No trips to gas stations, just charge when you get home.
2. Far fewer moving parts and fluids = FAR less maintenance
3. Quieter
4. Smoother
5. Faster in a straight line
6: And of course: Cheaper cost of energy usage

The only real advantage of gas cars is that there is no range anxiety. Otherwise, gas cars have already lost the practicality battle, it's just that battery technology and manufacturing costs as well as our electrical grid aren't yet ready to supply the world. "Practical", doesn't mean that it has to be ready to take over every single possible vehicle application all at once anytime soon.

In terms of parking, the other thing to keep in mind is that within a couple decades, cars will probably be driving themselves, and individual car ownership will be becoming obsolete. So where you charge when you get home won't really be a Joe Shmoe concern... But I digress. This pill may be hard to swallow right now.

Listen, I'm gonna miss our NA V8s and manual transmissions as much as any red-blooded MURICA enthusiast here, but I'm also not in denial about our future.

 

[RocketGuy3]

On a different note, I'm guessing this power loss is nothing but a tune that can easily be flashed away in the aftermarket...? (And then some)

 

[Vlad Soare]

We are not there yet, but we will.

Yeah, but that's what we've been constantly hearing for the past three decades: we will. It's always in future tense.
Let me know when we are there.

1. No trips to gas stations, just charge when you get home.
2. Far fewer moving parts and fluids = FAR less maintenance
3. Quieter
4. Smoother
5. Faster in a straight line
6: And of course: Cheaper cost of energy usage

#1 doesn't help with long trips.
#2 to #6 have nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion.
#6 is due to the tax system, which will surely change.

Here’s a R&T article on it now…

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...sPQCfh8QC438BgtrFe8G9KRcWMjr_pVUCPddOA1iTCXwQ

If it's about emissions, then it could indeed be the GPF, as I suspected.
On the plus side, I love how my tailpipes are absolutely clean after six thousand miles. Really, perfectly clean. It's just the bare metal, they look the same on the inside as they do on the outside. I've never seen this in any of my previous cars. The GPF does seem to do a great job.

 

[T.O.Bullitt]

ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere.

Exactly. The future is electric.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Exactly. The future is electric.

Could be. The trouble is, we live in the present.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Same platform just reskinned & no hybrid.. I do believe Ford confirmed that.

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/th...-model-year-hybrid-s650-comes-in-2025.156083/

At a recent dealer conference, Ford confirmed S650 was coming for the '23MY and will be a re-engineered version of the current architecture. A hybrid will come for the '25MY

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